Shades Of A 118
Apologies if there’s some squiffy bits in this page, I spent yesterday feverish in bed and dragged my sorry arse out to draw a thing.
In other news some of you may find this to your liking:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/samorchard/queer-and-trans-comic-series-launch-and-usa-tour
How the ever-loving fuck was Anwar the most accepting of JD’s friends? He’s so fucking judgmental and quick to assume the worst of those who enjoy sex. I mean, I get being asexual. I even get being the type of asexual who gets squicked out by sex. It’s not the type of asexual I am, but I understand and totally am on board with that.
But Anwar takes it to a whole nother dimension and is just a complete git about it who often ends up just trying to make others feel bad for being sexual in a non-normative way to deal with his inability to handle his own feelings surrounding his asexuality in a sexual culture.
And I just don’t see how that could have ever led to the moment at the beginning where JD trusted him to support them as they explored this part of themselves.
And it’s frustrating because it’d be nice if there was a genuine depiction of a real sex positive asexual (even if they personally were anti-sex in terms of what they wanted around them) instead of this weird almost parody based around messed up views of asexuals as insecure sexphobes who can’t even coexist with sexual spaces without freaking out. Especially as that would make the story stronger as well.
Well we’re only at the start. Anwar has the chance to grow. Although I do agree, the more I read, the less I like him.
I definately agree with you on most of this. But at the same a LOT of the things Anwar says is rather average… I mean a sex+ Asexual would be amazing, but at the same time there’s a reason Tab wrote the story this way and it’s not outside the realm of reality. There’s a significant chance someone reading this comic (or more than one) has had these things said to them (esp if you’re into kink). So whileI think the world as a whole needs a strong example of an asexual that isn’t a sexphobe I also feel its important to portray these types of moments and maybe later Anwar can do some character growth (I’m super hoping cause jeeze he’s a butt) and become the character you described.
Idk if that made sense its still very early where I am.
Yeah, I can sort of see that eventually he will mature and stop being an ass and maybe even end up in a poly relationship with JD and Chris once he gets over all of his hangups (which are legion), but man, talk about a rough phase of unlikeability to get there.
Although I don’t like Anwar as a character, and I don’t like the depiction of asexual characters (since Anwar is the only ace character Tab has depicted so far), I sort of get his sentiment (on this page)? Like, it’s one thing to be okay with someone doing something, but it’s different to have it right in your face? And he’s here accepting that it’s his fault because he put himself in that situation (going to the club), so he’s just letting JD know that he’s not going back to the club!
And about calling what JD’s into “weird stuff”; I’m pretty sure that most people would call it that? If you’re not into kinky stuff, you would think of it as weird! The mainstream world mostly teaches you about vanilla (straight) sex, and everything else is thought of as weird! “Weird” and “kinky” are pretty synonymous words to a lot of people, and I’m pretty sure that Anwar didn’t mean to be rude.
And, quite frankly, being sex-positive is not the same as being okay with being around sex. Being sex-positive means that you’re okay with people having sex. A bigger problem with Anwar’s character is that he’s constantly trying to have sex with others, and being so (extremely, exceedingly, ridiculously,) bad at communication. He’s not a bloody confused teenager anymore, he’s got internet-access, and he really should just try to grow up a little already.
You got my thoughts about him not being sex posi right out of my head. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to see sex in front of you – regardless of being ace or not – and Anwar is owning up to it being because he went to the club, and now saying he’s not going to oh back.
I also agree about kink being weird to most people. And being uncomfortable with kink doesn’t make a person sex neg, especially when it’s not their cuppa. I do feel like Anwar is *trying* to grow up and mature and have a discussion with JD and hopefully keep their friendship.
I don’t know… I’m having trouble sorting out my thoughts and feelings for this particular page…
The weird stuff and kink thing kind of fascinates me because there was a period of time when I was an asexual who was extremely anti-kink.
At the time, my only exposure to kink was through internet porn and its depictions were horrifying, filled with non-consensual rape and abuse by men against women. Lacking any connection beyond that, I assumed this was what kink was.
But I talked to people who were kinky and in a similar period of time as Anwar, hearing the stories of what people got out of it and asking questions and seeing good consensual practice, I lost a lot of my hangups and became more and more of a supporter.
I’m not saying Anwar should be me or that a newbie wouldn’t view kink as weird at first glance.
I’m saying that months in Anwar with a kinky boyfriend and a kinky best friend shouldn’t still be calling it weird to their faces especially after having Chris talk to him about the way having that sexuality treated as weird has massive social consequences.
Cause, being sex positive may not mean going “yay I want to see and/or hear all about it”, but it definitely means respecting that this thing brings someone you care about joy and they probably wouldn’t appreciate you calling it weird to their face.
Well, in case you didn’t actually see, Tab commented and specifically mentioned THIS: “Looking back I realise I’ve not made it explicit enough- when Anwar says ‘weird stuff’ what he really means is ‘anything involving JD’. But here JD has taken that to mean kink and arrrg misunderstandings.”
AKA, Anwar isn’t calling kink weird. He’s calling things that JD does weird, because Anwar still has his own hang-ups about just JD themself.
He’s not a bloody confused teenager anymore, he’s got internet-access, and he really should just try to grow up a little already.
Yeah, there’s that. Given his proclivities for going to the internet for answers, it’s kinda stretching disbelief that he still hasn’t stumbled on AVEN or doesn’t read other asexuals on the internet or just learn about these things that confused him.
There’s so many times when what is stated about the character just doesn’t jibe with how the character actually acts.
I am into BDSM and all things kink and I still call it the weird stuff. I don’t think I can name a single kinkster friend who would actually take offense to it being called weird either.
Yeah, I like my stuff extra weird. :P
Weird is good! Weird is not an insult, it’s a gorram compliment. :)
I agree. While Anwar has not been a champ through the course of this story, frankly JD is coming off as not being accepting in this page. He’s clearly uncomfortable with going to the club, he’s saying he’s not going anymore. Calling “weird stuff” is something JD should probably just shake their head at and sigh “Oh, Anwar.” It’s not exactly out of character.
This is exactly what I was thinking! Thank you for putting it better than I ever could.
I think they said that just to get Anwar to go to the club with them. Being raised as a girl means you get taught (AKA advised through friends, family, and various media) how to get a guy to do what you want, and flattery is one of those methods. I’m not saying everyone does it, but any cis-female or transman who says they haven’t used those techniques at least once in their life is a liar. (Don’t lie, we’ve all done it.)
Also, something must have happened between the breakup and now for JD and Anwar to be friends again. Maybe JD came out as gender neutral and boy Sam dumped them? #speculation
I’m sorry asexuals are being portrayed in a negative light here. Having no experience with ace people IRL, that’s my comment on the matter, lol.
Why would that have to be a lie? That’s just rude to assume. Not everyone is manipulative, and not everyone has male friends. Some people have anxieties, or are just bad at socialization, and for them it’s hard enough to even communicate with anyone, but to try to TRICK someone into doing something for you?? Have fun having a panic attack! And some people just have a bad mouth-brain connection, and they’re more likely to offend someone by accident, than managing to pull off fake flattery. (I, for one, have chronic foot-in-mouth disease. (AKA I say stupid shit at stupid times.))
(Oh, and did you know that it’s possibly to be non-binary? *gasp* *shock* … *gets stabbed by the sarcasm-police*)
I tend to find that just about any sort of “all women/men etc. Have done this” statement is untrue when examined more closely. Someone’s always going to come forward and say “nope, never have” and to say they must just be lying is a copout, and kind of insulting. For the record I’m (cis) female and can’t recall a time when I’ve ever done that. I’m awkward enough about giving people sincere compliment s without trying to fake them. I could be wrong or misremembering, but it’s not the kind of thing I’d do.
All I meant was that media often shows people who were raised as female, regardless of gender identity, how to get men to do things. Check any magazine targeted towards women (Cosmo, Vogue, etc.) and I guarantee you will find at least one piece telling women how to use mental hacks on men.
Explaining ‘what was meant’ doesn’t mean you suddenly weren’t rude anymore. Also, I don’t see an apology in there. I’m a transman with bad social skills who’s always refused to use ‘feminine seduction’ to get anything done. Don’t you dare insult my choices and my refusal to do one of the things I hate most about female socialization by flat out stating that I must be lying about never having done such a thing.
But what you actually said was ”any cis-female or transman who says they haven’t used those techniques at least once in their life is a liar.”
That’s not the same as pointing out how media tries to condition people to behave in a certain way. I don’t really see how you can go from a statement like that to ”But I *meant* this other thing.”
I don’t want to start a flame war over this, but what you said in the first comment really doesn’t add up to what you’re claiming was all you meant.
Saying “cis-female or transman who says they haven’t used those techniques at least once in their life is a liar” is an offensive sweeping generalization IMO.
All right, time to go full-on defensive mode. I meant to be humorous. I’m sorry if it didn’t come across that way or if anyone was offended by it. But I’m not going to apologize for what I wrote. I’m not easily offended, so it pisses me off that people on this website lash out at others because they’re offended by a misplaced comma. Either grow a thicker skin, develop a sense of humor, or shut the hell up. How’s that for a sweeping generalization.
For the record, I’m speaking as a cis-gendered, bisexual female. Just to give you all some context.
More context: yes, I’m pissed off right now, because I feel attacked for no reason except not expressing myself properly.
I saw no misplaced commas and nothing funny about calling cis women and trans* men liars.
“Either grow a thicker skin, develop a sense of humor, or shut the hell up.” <– I reject all of these commands and will continue to voice my opinion.
One more response. The comma is a hyperbole, meant to represent tiny little things. Take a lesson in literary terms sometime.
Take a lesson in literary terms sometime. <– I reject this command as well.
http://youtu.be/NZN1HowUV5Q
“Let’s eat, Grandma!”
“Let’s eat Grandma!”
Preeeeetty sure that the comma is not hyperbole. I’m fairly certain it’s an important aspect of the English language.
The “misplaced comma” doesn’t refer to an actual comma, it was meant a hyperbole. Or more of a metaphor, really…. I didn’t mean a real comma.
Last response to any further crap I get. See you on Thursday.
Amazing how you went from ignorant, but forgivable generalization to full on insulting and shouting. While people responded with a lot of anger to the generalization, you could have been the bigger person and apologized for what was clearly an insult to a lot of people. It wasn’t funny, nor had you misspoken. You expressed a clearly worded, broad generalization that would be insulting to many people who do use that sort of behavior, not to mention all the women and transmen who never have or would even consider it. Maybe you find this sort of deceptive behavior acceptable and that’s why you think it’s not an insult, or maybe you just think people shouldn’t care, but for as much as you claim to not be easily offended and wanting others to have thicker skin, you got extremely upset and inflammatory over this. Maybe you should consider that before telling others to get thicker skin?
It is quite easy to be misunderstood when writing something versus saying something, but in all honesty I don’t see the joke. Again, explaining ‘what was meant’ doesn’t help anyone. It doesn’t take the offense that was taken away. Basically what you’re doing is the so well known and hated ‘I’m sorry you don’t understand me, poor me’ response. Fine if you don’t want to apologize, but don’t expect anyone to forgive you either. Also, it’s not for you to decide who should or should not be offended by whatever. It’s also for you to decide that anyone should ‘toughen up’. If that’s what they want to do, fine, but you don’t get to decide that for others.
“It’s also for you to decide that anyone should ‘toughen up’. ” is supposed to be => It’s also NOT for you to decide that anyone should ‘toughen up’.
Sry, didn’t catch that when checking my text first time round.
“Don’t lie, we’ve all done it.”
Bull. Shit. Straight up bullshit.
You put it out there, therefore leaving yourself open to rebuke. Don’t play the victim, since you just attacked every DFAB & female-identified person out there. Trying to excuse what you said by saying “I’m a cis bi female” DOES NOT excuse the attacks you made on a group of people. It just makes you a bigger asshole.
It’s weird how some people take any disagreement or criticism as a massive personal attack. Yes, people can go too far rebuking someone who just made a mistake, but this was a very clearly-worded statement that a lot of people disagreed with and didn’t like, and said so. That happens.
So long as Anwar doesn’t try to stop Chris from going to the club and they both communicate (yeah, Anwar kinda sucks at that) about it, then I think it’s fine.
When one person in the relationship likes alternative/kinky things and the other person doesn’t, it can lead to disaster if there isn’t clear communication about it.
I’m hoping Chris can teach Anwar more about the alternative lifestyle and I’m also hoping Anwar can accept it like an adult.
Interesting that you took that side of it- I wrote this thinking there would be backlash against JD because they’re being patronising.
Looking back I realise I’ve not made it explicit enough- when Anwar says ‘weird stuff’ what he really means is ‘anything involving JD’. But here JD has taken that to mean kink and arrrg misunderstandings.
That’s interesting. I have to admit from my first reading JD came off quite badly, in the sense that they seemed to be framing Anwar’s personal preferences as ”being sex-negative” and jumping down his throat because of it. The comments made me rethink that a bit, and the ”weird stuff” bit was ambiguous in a way that I could see someone being affronted by. I think Anwar’s main problem was not articulating things properly, and poeople in the comments section do seem to be judging him quite harshly for making a remark that sounded a bit off.
Seconded. JD’s ‘sex negative’ comment came across as pretty ignorant/a willful refusal to see where Anwar was coming from when I first read it. But I also thought Anwar’s ‘I’m not going to the club any more’ was passive aggressive, and the ‘weird stuff’ was yeah, pretty insulting. But these are two people with a pretty complicated history, their own hangups (both about themselves and each other), and at a particular point in their lives. Can’t expect it all to come out the way it’s supposed to. I still think Anwars’ being a nob, and JD is being a (lesser) nob, but it’s understandable.
I did read this as JD being patronizing (and jumping to conclusions), but I’ve also been generally sympathetic and empathetic towards Anwar for a while now (partially because I can relate to him). I did immediate understand how his words on the last page and now this one could easily be misinterpreted though. I figured the “weird” comment especially could be taken the wrong way, particularly by someone sensitive to jabs at their sexuality due to past experience or a somewhat recent coming out (like JD).
I personally don’t think Anwar did or said anything wrong on this page. But I think many readers expected to see him put his foot in his mouth (partially based on his prior actions) and thus probably read this page in a harsher light than I did.
It’s hard for me to get angry at him, having a friend who IS ace. And I talk about what I want to do, and I do not take her into account nearly enough. I end up feeling bad at the end of the conversation, dropping the comments. She is bluntly honest that she does not want, and I proceed to drop way too much detail on her. It took her about four years to get innuendo (this is not an exaggeration, and even now, there are SEVERAL times when I will grin and she will pause, and five minutes later she’ll say “Ohh, EW.”
In essence, it is not a matter of being unaccepting. It’s a matter of not understanding why people WANT things. I don’t understand why she doesn’t want sex, and she doesn’t understand why I DO. She IS attracted to men (something I get when she says “I really want to draw that guy” near at the same time I say “The things I would DO to that man…”), just not in the same way. And unless she develops a sex drive (and I will not force her to) then it is not going to happen.
I think that Anwar certainly could phrase his feelings better, but it’s also a completely asshole move to force people to be “sex-positive.” Sex-positivity sometimes goes overboard and tries to insist that everyone likes sex and that you’re somehow a bad person for not liking sex. There’s nothing wrong with personally disliking sex. I do think Anwar needs to learn to articulate his feelings a bit better, but JD’s attitude of sex-positivity being more important than recognizing ones own limits is kind of offensive in and of itself. (Especially when BDSM is about understanding your own limits and boundaries. Anwar shouldn’t have called them “weird,” but he knows that he doesn’t want to see sex in front of him and that’s far more important than trying to force everyone to like sex or something.)
JD said they are getting a “negative vibe” from Anwar after he has apparently presented himself as accepting. I don’t see JD forcing sex-positivity; rather, from JD’s perspective, it looks like negative judgment in a setting that is intended for kink and sexual expression (the club). Not cool.
But surely that’s the point: he cannot be all positive-vibey in the club because it squicks him out, so he is removing himself from that situation so that he can be happy not seeing it, and they can be happy not having some uncomfortable dude making the “eeeew!” face at them while they get their happy on. Think that’s fairly positive. Being negative IMO would have amounted tothinking that the club was bad and should change to make him not feel weirded out, but no, he accepts that the others have their kinks, they should be allowed to continue with them, he just doesn’t want to put himself in a position to watch it, which is perfectly reasonable.
I agree with you. I was offering commentary on JD’s perspective and why they reacted as they did. It would seem that this is a sore spot for JD, which makes me think that Anwar has expressed negativity in the past off page.
I would agree that that’s probably likely. I don’t think Anwar knows how to deal with a kink club even on an intellectual level because he can’t quite wrap his head around the idea, much less have it in front of him.
I just think most people are ganging up solely on Anwar when I think they’re both making mistakes with their communication. JD could try to be more aware of the fact that Anwar is NOT comfortable around sex and Anwar could be more kind in phrasing his discomfort with JD’s sex life. (Although, as others have said, good for JD for not apologizing for everything and taking a stand at times. That will hopefully help them create boundaries.)
I dunno, I’m ace myself and sometimes I feel like Anwar? Sex itself isn’t so much gross or weird to me in some cases, but I don’t like talking about it and I definitely don’t want to SEE it happening, if I can help it. It’s just not my thing. Sex can be “weird” to someone who has no interest in it, even (especially) if they have very sex positive friends and only really see healthy relationships that involve sex, if they’re not aromantic.
Though I can’t really relate to Anwar about everything, on this I can feel him. It’s not easy to feel confident in nonsexual intimacy and romance when you yourself feel wrong. No one has to SAY anything about how you are, we’re often the most critical of ourselves and do that just fine on our own. Other people can’t really change how you feel about yourself, I mean, it’s something you work on as best you can.
So personally, I do like how Anwar’s portrayed as insecure and trying to figure things out. He knows he’s not into sex, so now he can work on becoming more confident in who he is while learning that not everyone who IS sexual is going to want sex all the time, that in some relationships there CAN be romance and cuddling between partners, even if one isn’t ace. Learning to communicate and build trust while educating one’s self is something important I love seeing in stories, because not everyone starts off feeling the same.
But I also feel that Anwar needs to be a good friend and be supportive of JD as best he can while preserving his own health. JD brought him to the club, knowing he wasn’t into sex and probably not into kink as a result, and I do think it’s good that he’s establishing he’s not a good fit for that, even if he’s being a bit…rude? I guess would be the best way to describe it, at any rate.
I get the feeling that he’s genuinely trying not to destroy what he has with both Chris and JD by doing what he’s interested in without forcing himself into uncomfortable situations that could damage either relationship while also having to accept that the people he cares about are into things he’s just not okay seeing or taking part in.
I get that and I get being insecure.
It’s just, okay, yeah, JD dragged him out once as a backup in case people gave them shit about their gender and he couldn’t even remain aware enough to know they were connecting with two other people despite them being there as moral support. And okay, he was overwhelmed, but then here he comes, goes out of his way to go to an event he is well warned that he might feel weird at and knows he’ll be challenged and still finds a way to make himself a martyr and make it all about this weirdness being thrust upon him. I mean, JD didn’t invite him the second time and was totally accepting and down with him being skeeved and in fact seems way more in tune with his feelings than he has ever been with theirs. It’s a one-way relationship.
And yeah, social messaging, definitely, 100%, but he constantly fails just being a friend. JD and Chris have had moments where it hasn’t been about someone being a sexual partner or even a romantic lover, but just a friend who is there for them and has their back and he just can’t pull himself out of his own ass to do that and it breaks a lot of suspension of disbelief to accept that someone like that would be considered a trusted confidant or viewed as a prize romantic catch.
It’s a problem where it isn’t so much that he’s weirded out by sex, but that he seems to use it as an excuse for not treating the sexuals in his life (especially JD) like full-people which just seems to be inheriting a bunch of social messages of a different sort.
But I get that others may get something else out of the character and not be getting the same vibe I get from them.
When this story began and JD was described as Anwar’s “soon to be ex best friend”, I thought “Oh, how is JD going to fuck things up with Anwar?”
For the past several pages, this has changed to “How is Anwar going to fuck things up with JD?”
Uh, JD’s not ever mentioned as Anwar’s ex-best friend.
It comes up somewhere near the beginning, in the comic’s description
First, many people who aren’t asexual would describe kink as “weird stuff” because they aren’t into kink and it makes them uncomfortable. No, it’s not polite or nice, but it’s also not “He only thinks it’s weird because he’s asexual.”
Second, I don’t want to read a story where everyone always says the right thing and never slips up or makes anyone uncomfortable. Maybe I’d like to live in the Valley of the Happy Nice People (As my writing instructor calls it) but I don’t want to read about it. Anwar is sometimes a dick, but he’s an interesting dick with a lot of non-dick qualities. That’s what makes good fiction.
Finally, while I love JD and don’t blame them for getting irritated about the “weird” remark, sex positive doesn’t mean that you instantly understand and accept all sexual practices. Anwar is still trying to understand his own sexuality while he supports his friend. Now that he knows he can’t go in the club without feeling uncomfortable, he’s going to stop. That’s pretty sex positive in my opinion.
Oi, okay, yes, I get that being sex positive doesn’t mean one is personally comfortable being around sex.
However, Anwar is not sex positive. He is judgmental of other people’s sex lives. Believes the worst of every sexual person he meets in terms of their ability to love or form caring friendships. And uses his preconceptions of what he believes about them because they are sexual to justify martyrdom complexes about how “broken” he is and how he is done wrong by a sexual society.
And as a genuinely sex-positive asexual, who has done a lot of work to make bridges with the kink community and make it a more ace-accepting place for kinky aces and has done several conference panels on asexuality and consent and sexual assault against asexuals and just genuinely fight against the violence done against asexuals because of social perceptions of asexuals as judgmental sexphobic prudes who TW:rapist language “need a good dicking to cure them”, Anwar’s depiction and self-identification as a sex-positive asexual bothers me.
Because it’s not his being uncomfortable seeing or being around sex that doesn’t make him sex-positive. It’s the way he treats those in his life who admit to having sexual desires and the way he reflexively thinks poorly of them because of those desires.
He’s a dick who doesn’t treat his friends well. Okay, we can write that story. But then, why does JD stick around? Why does Chris? Every time they praise him or see him as anything worth confiding in or spending emotional energy on when he repeatedly treats them this way, it just seems to echo abusive or advantage-taking dynamics.
And for a first comic depiction of an asexual by a queer writer with a good background, it’s just frustrating to see.
And I guess bothers me a bunch, because after Khaos and the humanizing way we got so many love stories, is it really what aces need to get a complete dick who people put up with though they really shouldn’t as “our” love story depiction? Because that makes the character “realer”?
I really love this comment, and a lot of other things you’ve said on this page. Thank you.
I see people getting mad at Anwar, and I get it; but lemme ask this: how can Anwar be honest about how he feels without sounding like a jerk?
“Hey, I wasn’t expecting to get triggered by seeing that, but I did. That stuff is just not for me. Hope you continue to have fun there and we totally need to hang out more outside the club.”
But oh noes, that bit of common decency and humanity where he isn’t undermining his supposed best friend’s sexuality (a aspect of their sexuality they admit to being insecure themselves about, see the beginning of the story) is just so impossible.
I guess to me, I’ve had to explain as a survivor of sexual violence that activities my partners had gotten used to suddenly triggered me. I’ve had to explain as an asexual how I will never ever find my partners sexually attractive. I’ve had to explain as a trans* woman how an us would work with partners wondering how much would change from what they were used to.
I guess, from my perspective, a person with months hanging out with two kinky people and having just had Chris tell him how much having one’s sexuality treated as a freakish thing fucks with someone and makes him feel as alienated as Anwar, not being able to sound like a jerk in the relatively easy task of “don’t insult their sexuality to your best friend’s face” is not seeming like a Heruclean task.
And I guess that’s the thing that makes the insults out of place. Anwar is the only one baffled by the other characters’ sexualities. Chris and JD are in the modern day like “cool asexuality” and aren’t fucking up constantly. Like JD messed up at first, but Anwar didn’t even have the words to really describe being ace yet and presented it in a way easy to misinterpret (which yeah, easy to do, not criticizing that).
The point being that we get a lot of Anwar repeatedly fucking up other people’s sexualities and treating those poorly. A lot of other people respecting Anwar’s asexuality. And no depictions of the crap that asexuals go through except as an abstract he’s being a dick thing.
And it just creates this weird point where we can’t help but notice Anwar’s doucheyness surrounding his friend’s and lover’s sexualities and where his tenderness about his asexuality seems almost parody-like because he’s the only one who seems to not be able to accept his aceness (in the main cast).
And it’s also why his doucheyness stands out because JD and Chris are so wonderful and accepting and he just really isn’t but wants to claim the right to be seen as the most moral of all.
Don’t see JD as that accepting! Chris is lovely though. Anwar is working through things, and he’s struggling, but condeming him feels like the wrong tack. (And as someone mentioned, as a 50 shades parody he could be doing much worse. Although I haven’t read it, what I’ve been told is that the main character barely has a clue what sex is when it starts)
My guess is he doesn’t have a grasp what sexuality for other people is and includes. Even people with similar life experiences but not being ace fall into this trap regularly, especially when young. It sucks, but I’m not going to assume he is being a bad person as such, just ignorant. I haven’t seen him totally refuse advice – he isn’t saying “no I won’t be polite in this way” he just doesn’t know. Despite the whole “ignorance is no excuse” I’d rather make a polite effort with the ignorance, there are people out there who are truly problems. I think I missed a few words :/
He could’ve said “The fetish club’s not really my thing, so you probably won’t be seeing me there again” or something similar. The way he phrased it made it sound snotty and judgemental, whether it was intended that way or not. An apology and a clarification from him would be nice at this point.
On a side note, I’m glad JD was assertive about not having to apologise. They’re absolutely right.
This makes me wonder if all the folks commenting here have always known perfect people who never say the wrong thing, never say something they regret later, have insecurities for a bit, or say something hurtful once in a blue moon? I figure the story is over several months, and all the regular nice and positive things he says in between the foot in mouth stuff isn’t included as we are focusing on the difficult bits while Anwar finds himself.
In that case, I want to see that moment. That moment where he isn’t drowning in his narcissism and just supports, is nice, gives half what others give to him. Not sex, not forcing of his boundaries, not self-loathing offers of sex, just friendship, kindness, and support.
Cause what I’m seeing makes me feel alienated from a character meant to represent people like me.
Yeah, I do think people are being a little harsh. Anwar certainly has his faults, no denying that, but he came off to me as someone who’s trying to come to terms with things and work out boundaries, and sometimes does it in a really crappy way. He says and does some douchey things, yes, but at least he apologises and tries to make amends afterwards. Have the people reading this really never blurted out something mean or inappropriate and regretted it afterwards?
I get the issues with ace representation, but I’d still rather see a three-dimensional character with flaws and elements to their personality besides their asexuality than a perfectly well-behaved flat caricature.
Well stated :)
I’ll second that. Also, saying “Argh! [Character]! Why are you being a douchenozzle!” does not necessarily mean “I do not like this comic/the way it is written” or anything like that. In fact, in come cases it’s a sign of good writing, that people can be invested in the story line and/or the characters. I my case, I’m not actually all that attached to the characters right now, but I want to see how the story progresses. I trust Tab’s writing, and I think it will be an interesting journey. Additionally, these comments can sometimes be a springboard for interesting discussion – I’ve definitely learnt things I wouldn’t have otherwise. So yeah, laying into Anwar/another character =/= hating on Shades of A.
Yep. Also liking someone as a character isn’t the same as liking them as a person. I’ve often found characters very well-written and interesting, but they’re still not the kind of people I’d want to be friends with (a lot of pop culture villains, for starters)
I think Anwar is a judgmental, self-centered person who happens to be asexual. What has been shown so far, he isn’t very likeable and I continue to wonder what Chris sees in him or why JD continues to put up with his attitude. Sadly, I don’t see much “growth” in Anwar from the flashbacks to the present. That is disappointing to me, because I really wanted to like Anwar. *sigh*
Tab, I love you, and I was so excited that you were finally depicting an ace character, but Anwar is really pissing me off. I want some nice asexuals for Christmas, thank you.
Yes! This!
I’m not going to defend Anwar, per se, but hear me out.
I’m not keen on sex. I do it, as best I can, because I like bringing joy to others. Frankly, though, I’m not keen on seeing sex. My reaction to surpising sexual scenes on TV and in films aggravates my friends (I’m trying to crack down on my automatic reaction to that, but when it catches me off gaurd it can be hard)
Learning to actually speak up and say A) I’m ace B) I’m not fussed about sex and C) Please accept me as I am because I’m fed up of trying to change to suit others was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.
Now that I’ve done it, though, I’ve got to learn when NOT to use my words. NOT to ask my friends to not kiss in front of me because it makes me uncomfortable, for example.
I think learning when to shut up is every bit as hard, and certainly as important, as learning to speak up. So please, everyone, do cut Anwar some slack. I get the impression learning to speak up is new to him. Give him a chance to learn to shut up as well.
(Sidenote; were it me, I’d apologise to JD for not feeling comfortable going to the kind club while they’re there. I would then ask if it would be OK to clear my visits through them if Chris asks me to go, but explain I was trying to dodge a bad work visit and it DID give me a chance to meet Chris’ Dom. I think this is what An is trying to get at anyway. I sure hope so.)
Soooooo am I the only person who’s NOT getting pissed at Anwar here? Like, shit I’m not even ace and I don’t want to see sex all the time and even though I love running around on kink memes, I’m not sure how I’d handle going to a kink club irl. I can’t imagine how someone who doesn’t care about sex at all going to a kink club wouldn’t be massively uncomfortable there. Is he going about it the wrong way? Very possibly. But damn, I feel like a lot of people here are crucifying the dude for something average people do every damn day. :/
THANK YOU. My thoughts exactly.
Umm, Anwar had been to the club before, so he knew he was going to be seeing kink stuff. Other than seeing JD in a scene with their subs, Anwar wasn’t seeing much different than he had before. Calling JD’s proclivities “weird” was disrespectful IMO. I see no one crucifying Anwar, just calling him on hurtful words and lack of consideration for others feelings again.
If he’s so uncomfortable, why did he go? (other than trying to dodge a work thing, which he could have just said he didn’t want to go to, or say he had other vague plans).
He had a good time there the last time he was there, he met Chris there even. He probably thought he would be fine attending. Sometimes we attend things and belatedly realize that we aren’t really comfortable. He’s human, he made a mistake going there.
Thank you. If we were all crucified for our mistakes, none of us would be left.
Oh, for the love of Christ. Tab is creating three-dimensional characters. Yes, Anwar is being kind of a dick, but JD isn’t such a saint either. They automatically assume that just because they’re OK with kink, everyone is OK with kink. Attacking someone for being sex-negative is not OK.
In a lot of ways, they’ve been disrespecting Anwar’s own sexual wishes from day one. Have a boyfriend who’s obviously uncomfortable being on the bottom? Offer yourself up as a birthday present. Going to a kink club? Drag along the friend you know will be most uncomfortable there. Getting involved with married submissives? Brag to your ex-boyfriend who you know still isn’t over you. Added bonus: the boyfriend, friend and ex are all the same person.
Just because Anwar can be a dick doesn’t mean JD is totally blameless. Wow, that rant lasted a lot longer than I thought it would.
JD is definitely not perfect. But, Anwar did not tell them they didn’t want sex and consented to sex with JD. Anwar knew what was going on at the kink club and consented to go anyway. Unless Anwar told them, JD would not have known that Anwar still had feelings. Anwar broke up with JD, not the other way around, then asked to be friends. Anwar’s lack of communication and honesty with JD is not JD’s fault. Not being able to read Anwar’s mind is not JD’s fault. And JD’s honesty about their sexuality does not deserve Anwar’s judgment or disrespect IMO.
In the same spirit as enthusiastic consent, I would very carefully talk to any ex about whether they still have feelings. Assuming they don’t is on the rude side. And although this conversation might have happened behind the scenes, the way Tab shows the conversations, I doubt it has.
It’s hard dealing with Anwar’s douchiness again after his screw-up in the past. The closeness of the scenes paints Anwar in the worst possible light. His attitude is another factor – he’s been very rude and acts like he’s never to blame, which screams of selfishness and a lack of empathy for people who are completely on his side. JD at least meant well, misguided as they were. JD can be insensitive and selfish, but it pales in comparison to Anwar’s faults.
I thought he appeared to accept responsibility for going to the club? I can’t say it was well phrased, but that’s the impression I got.
I read that line as passive aggressive – as if he was trying to solicit an apology from JD. But I’m not entirely sure that’s how it was written.
Based on Tab’s response farther up the page (“Interesting that you took that side of it- I wrote this thinking there would be backlash against JD because they’re being patronising.”) I’d say it wasn’t written to make it seem like Anwar wanted an apology from JD, but perhaps it was written to show that through miscommunication it could definitely be taken passive-aggressively. I feel like JD was socialized to apologize for things that weren’t exactly their fault, and it seems that they used to do this frequently (based on flashbacks), so their first response to Anwar’s statement was to apologize, and then take it back when they realized they did nothing wrong and should stick up for themself. But I think jumping to apologize was actually JD misinterpreting Anwar’s intent. It sure seemed to me like he just wanted to inform them that he would not be going back to the club (and maybe begin a conversation about his lingering feelings, which would explain his reaction), not that he thought they were somehow to blame for him being uncomfortable or that they owed him an apology. But I can see why it could come off that way. I feel like right now, partially given how we’ve seen Anwar up to this point, much of what he says can be interpreted as passive aggressive when it probably isn’t meant to be that way at all.
I actually like Anwar more because of this page. There is a difference between accepting something, and wanting to see it/participate in it/ think it isn’t weird. It’s a preference. He’s not saying JD is weird, he is saying what they do is weird–to him. He’s speaking up and (finally) attempting to do things in a constructive manner by explaining and withdrawing from the stuff that makes him uncomfortable. Also, Anwar, like many of us (especially judging from the comments) has trouble phrasing things on the fly. Sometimes things just come out wrong!
I’m seeing a lot of comments about people being Aces and trying not to mention things that make them uncomfortable. I can understand where you are coming from (who wants to have an awkward “please no PDA” conversation with friends) but if something made my friend uncomfortable, I would personally like to know so I could stop doing it! Sometimes people forget or there isn’t an easy way around things (like your movie-portrayed sleepovers where people talk about the people they like/have liked/etc that’s often seen as a key part of sleepovers) but people can plan sleepovers that don’t talk about that or only talk about romantic relationships in the sense of not talking about sex or the like explicitly etc–based on who is comfortable with what. In terms of the every day, I think I could hold off from kissing or talking about sex or etc if I knew it made my someone uncomfortable. I would try to be extra-conscious of that. I think a lot of people would.
Same here! As as ace lady living in a sex positive world, I really do prefer people not talk about stuff in public. If everyone is celebrating JD for standing up for themselves, why can’t we celebrate Anwar for saying what he wants?
At the same time–I’ve had the same problem with kink clubs in my area that are too “sex positive.” I’m like, no, I just want to be tied up in a non sexy way. So the way JD is claiming that the kink club can is only a space for them is kind of annoying.
i really like that JD stops themself apologizing. as a DFAB person i find i was socialized to be very accommodating especially to DMAB men, and it’s been an uphill struggle to not do that. to be like “no, i’m actually not going to apologize for something which isn’t my fault”.
i really like these characters in all their flaws, and i like how they’re figuring stuff out about eachother and how best to relate.
Keep in mind that Anwar is roughly equivalent to Ana from 50 Shades, so while Tab is trying to develop the character more fully (not hard IMO), he’s going to be flat and pretty ignorant about a lot of things at first. Yes, he’s being impolite in his response to JD, but at least Anwar is talking instead of bottling things inside until he explodes like he did previously.
Everyone is talking about Anwar not being sex-positive, but trying to enforce sex positivity on people can be dangerous.
“I’ve encountered people constantly assuming sex is good and that having sex is just something you do in healthy relationships. This creates a situation where hating sex is a character flaw caused by those terrible sex-negative tropes society presses on you, and obviously only Bad People don’t consent to sex.
That’s rape culture. This is what environments that assume sex is unambiguously a good thing do. Saying, “It’s consensual sex that’s good” doesn’t actually fix the problem. It just creates a situation where you must be consenting to sex, because if you aren’t, you’re not having enough sex and then you’re “sex-negative”.
See, it only fixes a problem where you’re like, “Well I don’t really want to do this right now”. It does not do anything at all to help people who find sex painful. It does nothing at all to help a person who doesn’t want sex, but thinks they do because it’s been so heavily normativized they have to have sex, and have to have it in this specific way. All the, “But make sure it’s consensual!” thing does is tells the person, “Well maybe if you don’t want sex this time it’s okay, but remember you still must be having it some of the time!”
See, to actually fight rape culture you need to say “Sex is always optional. You are never obligated to have sex.” You must always be concerned with consent, and that means you must accept that the answer may very well always be no, despite the fact there’s this belief sex is the greatest thing ever.
And if someone never wants sex, then sex can’t really be a good thing to them, because it’s always unwanted.”
(from http://ardhra.tumblr.com/post/9264155235/sex-positivity-is-rape-culture-in-disguise )
I would agree that Anwar definitely needs to learn to be more polite about his feelings when it comes to other people’s sex lives, for certain, but that doesn’t make him sex-negative or a bad person necessarily. It sounds to me like he doesn’t know how to communicate how he feels and is really new at talking about stuff like this more openly. He didn’t say “weird stuff” to try to make JD feel bad, he said it because he immediately realize it would offensive. He’s learning. If he refuses to try to get better about that, then I would be mad at Anwar, but it does seem like he’s trying, but that no one is really giving him the tools to understand or figure it out himself and are instead scolding him after the fact. (And by “people” I mean his friends who I would expect to help him, not the public in general.)
Guys, give Anwar some time. He’s trying to figure this stuff out and doesn’t really have any guidance in it. He’s also probably extremely frustrated and uncomfortable and that can make it harder. And JD’s insistence on sex always being a good thing is rude, too, since not everyone (including those who aren’t asexual) might not like sex. They’re both failing to communicate on different levels and they’re trying to establish their borders, which is what friends do when another friend slips up.
Where does JD insist that sex is always a good thing? I’ve watched JD find out Anwar is asexual, accept it, then move on with their life. JD’s sexual expression is a good thing to them and it would be reasonable to this happiness with Anwar (their friend). Isn’t that what friendship should be about? If Anwar can’t handle JD’s life choices, then he should end the friendship and let JD find someone who accepts all of them.
I have to admit, I’m not sure I’ve seen JD accept it. They have moved on with their life, but I feel some negativity still from them. This might be related to the specific issues surrounding their previous relationship with Anwar, rather than the asexuality, but its unclear.
Equally, I don’t think JD has made the point that sex is always positive, although their younger self certainly had a damaging opinion about sex, and I don’t know what their current opinion is.
The acceptance that I saw was when Anwar broke up with JD because he said JD didn’t love him. JD said they were surprised at the revelation, but they could have worked it out if given a chance. JD then forgave Anwar, agreed to remain friends after the break up and moved on with their lives with Anwar as a part of it. Sounds a lot like acceptance to me.
Clarifying: Anwar said JD couldn’t love him because he was asexual or something along that line.
Okay, there is a lot here that is offensive, but I’m just going to tackle one bit because there are a lot of people here who don’t seem to get it.
Sex positivity is not the same thing as rape culture.
Sex positivity isn’t “you should have sex even if you don’t want it and you’re a bad person if you don’t”. Sex positivity isn’t “you need to be comfortable participating in sex as a yoyeur or being in sexually charged spaces”. It doesn’t even mean “you need to absolutely love our society’s assumption of everyone as sexual and shoving that everywhere in culture.”
It means simply accepting that other people have sexualities and supporting that by supporting a space where people are not judged for sexualities deemed “weird” by society and where open communication of consent, boundaries, and sex can happen.
And it frustrates me that so many people are pretending that Anwar is being “forced to be sex positive” (it’s his fucking self-identifier, he chose it, thus he should understand what it means) or that people seem to think that it is the same as the rape culture.
Because, see, the reason I am so passionately sex positive as an asexual, is because I want to end rape culture. Because I care deeply about the issues of rape and sexual assault perpetuated against asexuals (including corrective rape). Because I want to end the obscene amount of asexuals who are coerced or find themselves ignoring consent or have a partner or a friend think their sexuality is a challenge.
Because open communication about consent and about sexuality is what will end that. Establishing norms where people talk to each other about what they want at the beginning of relationships instead of letting social concepts of “what you are supposed to do” “if you love each other” dictate terms.
Where people can openly talk about what their needs are and where people are trained to accept where people come from.
And this is huge, because it is this that will protect asexuals in relationships. A world where people accept that some people like missionary and some people like a fireplay scene and whip down is one where people aren’t bringing their sexphobic hangups to understanding asexuality and thus are more likely to accept an asexuals choice to abstain instead of thinking they need to “fix the asexual” in order to feel better about the desires society tells them are bad and dirty.
A general sex positive culture, where consent is informed and people are not judged for what they want or don’t want will make relationships less fraught for asexuals. And thus yeah, it frustrates me to see people conflate the two because we as a general culture are so unused to the notion of non-rapey sexuality.
Also, endnote. I don’t think people would even have much problem if he was flat out sex-negative. It’s a place to start and we have a lot of inherited hangups to excise as we grow up.
It’s that he’s trying to claim he’s sex positive and wants the regard from being that without doing the work or understanding the first thing about anything. It’s like privileged douchebags who say they are feminists, despite believing that women are inferior and that they are entitled to sex, simply because they don’t support stranger in the bushes rape.
Wow, awesome! Incredibly informative and learned a lot about sex positivity, a term I had not heard until this comic. Thanks for the work put into posting this!
in my experience/opinion, rape culture has more to do with misogyny, sexism, and patriarchy. and i agree with N that sex positivity in a perfect world (also in this one, very frequently) means don’t judge people (within the boundaries of consent) and also embrace your own sexuality (however that may look) to the fullest of your ability and desire. i think that because of rape culture, sex positivity can be warped into something which looks way more like “be ok with everything all the time no matter what” as a coercive means for controlling other people’s bodies and actions, and making people conform to a societal ideal.
for example, i’ve talked to a bunch of cis-feminine identified people who went to the original woodstock festival here in the states. they’ve stated that the whole “free love” concept was enacted in a very sexually coercive, patriarchal way and they felt extremely unsafe being there. i’m sure DMAB folx felt that way too, i just haven’t had the pleasure. i’ve seen similar, more contemporary spaces in which “sex positivity” stood in for “free love” and carried with it the same fucked up, patriarchal baggage.
thanks for creating this thread! i think it’s definitely provided good discussion.
This is more the point I was trying to make, which is that sex positivity is a hot-word that can be easily misused, especially with the prevalence of rape culture in most societies. I think JD forgets that Anwar personally disliking sex doesn’t necessarily mean he’s sex-negative and it’s incredibly antagonistic, I think, for JD to accuse Anwar of being sex-negative when JD is aware Anwar dislikes sex.
I think both of them have a lot of difficult putting themselves in the other person’s perspective and this causes a lot of their issues.
I’m not sure about the sex positivity movement in general, but I think that part of the problem being discussed here is that feelings about sex seem to be assumed to be binary. Anwar may or may not be sex positive (though I am of the opinion, like a few others, that he didn’t mean to say he was- he was making a play on words), but the problem I see is people, including JD, accusing him of being “sex negative.” The “absence” of a specifically “sex positive” view does not inherently mean someone is “sex negative.” Labeling someone as “sex negative” also does seem to imply that sex is a “good thing” and that not believing that, not being interested in it, or not being all for sex is bad, in poor taste, prudish, or generally close-minded. By calling Anwar “sex negative,” JD is implying that there is something wrong with not being enthusiastic about sex or that having anything except a positive opinion of sex (including an ambivalent or neutral one) makes someone intolerant or close-minded. That’s the main problem I see in this page, and that is also possibly how “sex positive,” due to the binary people often draw to “sex negative,” could be seen as perpetuating rape culture.
So basically, I think sex positivity, when really about everyone having the right to have or not have sex as they wish (provided they have consent from any and all partners), is great and probably not a part of rape culture. However, in actual practice sex positivity is often posed against “sex negativity” (the supposedly opposite viewpoint) and this creates the theme (perceived or intentional) that sex is inherently good and everyone (especially liberal, social justice oriented people) should think this. In reality, the true “opposite” viewpoint to “sex positive” would probably be viewing sex as inherently wrong, immoral, disgusting, “sinful,” or something no one should be doing. But I don’t think that’s what “sex negative” implies (especially since I am unaware of many people who really view sex overall like this- even asexual people, religious people, conservative people, etc. usually acknowledge the importance of some of the population having sex for procreation, whether or not they personally want to be involved).
Thank you, this is actually breaking down the point I was trying to get across better than the way I explained it.
What I meant, especially by quoting that article, was that sex-positivity shouldn’t be about forcing people to like sex or accept sex into their lives, but unfortunately it can accidentally (or even intentionally, yikes) push people towards sex when they don’t want to have sex. People who are asexual, or have health problems that can cause fluctuations in their hormones, or people for whom sex is painful, etc., shouldn’t be made to feel that they have to accept sex into their lives or they’re being unhealthy. There are still people who think that a healthy amount of sex to have is like, what, 3 times a week or something? As if there is a prescribed amount of sex everyone must have. This attitude can be toxic and counter-productive to the actual point of sex-positivity.
Huh. This is a very different take on “sex positivity” than how I’ve ever thought about it. My understanding of sex positivity is that it promotes safe sex, education, and not being judgemental of other people’s sexual choices, such as not labeling people with derogatory terms related to promiscuity and being okay with kinks. I never really saw sex positivity as meaning “you have to do this,” but rather, “don’t judge people for doing this.” This is an interesting viewpoint on it, thanks.
Okay, Anwar is seriously pissing me off now. ANWAR is the one that went to the club, knowing what might be going on here, and now he’s upset with JD for ‘having sex stuff in front of him’? Is he serious? I’m ace myself, if I didn’t want to see sex stuff, -I wouldn’t go to the kink thing-. Anwar’s making it sound like it’s JD’s fault he went there and is blaming them, that’s not okay. And then he calls JD out to help him shop for a gift for his new boyfriend. Anwar, get your head out of your butt and grow up. You’re hurting people. I really hope he matures through the story, I want to like him so bad, but I can’t with how he’s acting here.
Well, JD, if I recall correctly, did seem to pressure Anwar to come to the kink club so that they would feel safe going. Does that necessarily make JD the bad guy? No. I think JD unintentionally pressured Anwar into a situation that, honestly, JD should’ve realized would make Anwar really uncomfortable and Anwar is letting JD know that he isn’t comfortable with it, although quite rudely. They both could be behaving better.
Asexual people = spectrum.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with portraying Anwar like this, especially as he is within about 24 hours of accepting that he actually is ok with not wanting sex. Well, maybe. For the moment. Has no one else regardless of sexuality ever said something slightly less PC when expressing yourself for the first time? Over something you have issues with? I’d imagine that’s the norm… (Not limited to talking about sex)
For that matter, its incredibly easy to say something wrong just as a human being, if your life doesn’t intersect with x minority, and if you have had previous interactions with x. Example I’ve seen recently: someone saying hermaphrodite. Which, to be fair, in their last interaction with an intersex person who would have fallen under that label, was not especially seen as a problem. Imo most people don’t go to the internet *first* when on the edge of something. Also, the internet is confusing still. Don’t be so hard on him.
And, you know, at the end of the day, asexual = spectrum. I know some people who really don’t want to think about it or deal with it in any way except perhaps very clinically (i.e. this specific physical act leads to pregnancy, etc.) Why should they have to be sex positive?
Ok, Anwar does claim to be sex positive, but 1) Can he really even know what that means? 2) Up until now I’m pretty sure to him this meant “I am going to try to have sex with my partners as much as they want and please them hugely every time.” which… makes his comment of “I’m positive I don’t want it…” make a lot of sense, ne?
I think that whilst minority communities (or even just communities prone to persecution regardless of majority/minority status) want the best portrayal of their members in media, this isn’t realistic, and is probably damaging to individuals who … aren’t perfect. I think Tab is doing a pretty good job portraying all of the interactions here – there isn’t any obvious places where inappropriate behaviour is just allowed to lie. I think people will learn more from seeing inappropriate behaviours and their consequences than seeing perfect behaviours anyway… and, well, even comic characters are meant to be human.
There’s also the fact that this conversation, between Anwar and JD, isn’t over yet. Anwar may have put his foot in his mouth, but he still has an opportunity to extract it with clarification/apologies for sounding judgemental. We’ll have to wait for the next few strips to judge how douchey he’s really being in this interaction – and I don’t think JD gets a free pass for their behaviour either, what with assuming “I’m uncomfortable watching these things happen” means “people shouldn’t be doing these things”
My take on JD’s reaction was that they took ‘I don’t want to see anymore weird stuff” as Anwar being judgmental (IE: sex negative).
You are totally right that this conversation may not be over and we could see Anwar and JD talk it out to full understanding. That would be nice for a change. :)
I’m into bondage, would love to go to a club like this, and sometimes it slightly offends me when people that don’t like bondage talk about it (y’know, stuff like “it’s abuse!”, “it’s wrong!” “ugh, so gross!” etc), but just saying it’s weird? That doesn’t really do anything to me. I get Anwar, this IS weird to him. Now, I don’t really like him, but I think JD is overreacting a lil’ bit.
But hey, I guess I’d get annoyed too at this point. Anwar knew what he’d find there, so really, it’s on him. It’s just that I think it’s ok for him to think it’s weird.
Right, that’s what I was thinking. I mean, calling it “weird” wasn’t exactly polite, it was kind of rude, but keeping his current mindset in mind, it’s easy to see why he would say something like that, especially when he feels that JD pressured him into going, in my opinion. (I believe JD pressured him unintentionally, but should’ve realized that he would be uncomfortable in a kink club.)
I feel like the only person who doesn’t hate Anwar.
In this page he’s done NOTHING. JD’s the one getting bent out of shape over nothing. Anwar NEVER asked them to apologise. and well, to the majority of humanity bdsm and shit IS weird and JD just needs to get use to that.
To the majority of humanity, asexuality is weird and Anwar needs to get used to that. To the majority of humanity, queerness is weird and gay people need to get used to that. To the majority of humanity, women having equal rights is weird and women need to get used to that. To the majority of humanity, lower class people having a voice is weird, the impoverished need to get used to that.
We’d not accept these other statements. We shouldn’t demand that JD accept that their interests are less than because Anwar is a privileged idiot who hasn’t bothered to learn the intro ropes (ha) in the months he’s been around the kink community and connected with kinky people.
Anwar isn’t very privileged at all. He’s asexual, in a relationship with a man, and muslim. JD is a huge jerk for forcing their asexual friend into so many sexual and uncomfortable positions for him, and JD needs to grow up and realize not everyone is going to love being around their kink.
Being unprivileged in one respect doesn’t make one blameless in others. He’s a muslim, in a homoromantic relationship and ace and suffers bigotry because of all those. But he is also vanilla, cis and male and has so far used those aspects to cause other people pain by assuming his worldviews of oppression mean others couldn’t have suffered their own oppressions.
It’s much the same way that I am trans*, a woman, ace, poly, in a homoromantic relationship and so on, but that doesn’t mean I should get a free pass when I do something fucked up because of white privilege or that I don’t have white privilege because of all the other places I am disempowered.
Also what forced? They invited him once. He reacted poorly, they never invited him again. He went on his own, by choice, and with the warnings of his boyfriend and then decided to blame that decision on JD and make them feel bad about something they were doing in a space they weren’t expecting to meet Anwar.
…except he said “pretty much” when jd said they didn’t need to apologize for him being there. i don’t really see how he’s blaming jd for ANYTHING. he just told them that he’s probably not going there anymore because he saw stuff that made him uncomfortable. i don’t see where he said that it was jd’s fault.
I don’t hate Anwar either. I don’t hate JD, though, either.
I think both of them are having a lot of problems putting themselves in the other’s perspectives and they’re both being insensitive. JD pressured Anwar into going to the kink club by asking him to be their safety buddy, essentially, when JD should’ve been aware that this would make Anwar uncomfortable. However, Anwar has been pretty rude about everything so far. They’re both taking out their frustration on each other.
i really didn’t read anwar’s use of the word “weird stuff” as being judgmental. i’m not comfortable with that sort of thing (sex stuff in general) in front of me, either, and i know exactly the sort of tone i use to refer to that stuff. it’s not judgmental, it’s not negative, it’s just sorta, “i find that weird because i don’t relate to it.” i find it strange, just like other people find my lack of sexual interest strange, but it doesn’t mean i think less of anyone that participates in it. that’s exactly how i interpreted his comment. yes, he could have used a better expression, but maybe HOW he said it isn’t nearly as bad as people are assuming.
also, people are saying he shouldn’t have gone to the club if he wasn’t comfortable, but the thing is, he willingly went there because he was fine with it. he was going there for chris, to show that he was accepting of his interest in sex, which IS sex-positive, if you ask me. he was thrown off by jd participating in a scene right in front of him. i don’t know if it’s wholly unexpected that he might have a less-than-stellar reaction to that, especially knowing that he’s still feeling a bit weird over the jd thing.
i also think people tend to interpret “prudishness” for sex-negativity. sex-positivity is supporting people’s right to want or not want sex. just because i’m uncomfortable with people having sex in front of me doesn’t mean i don’t support their right to do it. it seems to me like anwar feels the same way. jd didn’t even let him finish his sentence, so it’s not like he got to fully explain how he feels about it. considering that he conceded “pretty much” when jd said they didn’t have to apologize, i find it doubtful that he was trying to “play the martyr” and get all worked up over it, as others have suggested.
The comments section lately is always full of a lot of negativity, lots of people jumping to conclusions, and lots of preaching about being accepting while not trying to empathize at all. Everybody learns their lessons in their own way, it isn’t necessary to demonize them because they’re learning at a different pace than you did. That seems pretty intolerant to me.
Yes, THANK YOU for saying this. I agree.
I don’t really understand all of the hate and negativity that has been on here lately. I know some people are frustrated because they might not agree with how some of the characters – and not just Anwar – are acting. However, every single character is acting in a realistic fashion, the same way Tab writes all of his characters. It may not be necessary likeable, but it is honest and that is what makes it enjoyable and meaningful. It pulls me into the story and makes me think about the ways I have screwed up similarly and consider how I would approach these situations or others like it in a better way. To me, that is the mark of a powerful story with well-depicted characters.
As a 24 year old kinky queer cis-woman who has a generally low sex drive but does not identify as asexual, I relate to a lot of aspects in all of these characters. I also feel that all of them have made some pretty big mistakes at times and are flawed. Sometimes, I want to sit them down and have a conversation on why communication is important and why what they just did was completely out of line. However, I appreciate all of them for all of these reasons, because it makes them realistic and powerful characters. I also felt the same way about all of the characters from Khaos.
I want to add that I feel it is inappropriate to expect anyone, either a fictional character or an irl person, to act as a representation for a whole group of people. Everyone has different experiences, personalities and reactions – there is no way a single individual can embody all of that. Tab does not set out to do that and placing that burden of expectation on him and then getting angry when he doesn’t meet it seems unfair to me.
So basically, to end this comment, I want to say THANKS TAB. Thank you for writing realistic characters that cause strong reactions and hopefully inspire thought and possibly self-awareness in all of those who read your work. I know it has for me.
You took the words right out of my mouth! It would be impossible for these characters to embody an entire group of people. And I agree, thanks, Tab for the realistic characters and all their flaws. :)
Yes. I even recommended this comic to a few asexual friends. Really regretting that now. This is not representation, it’s excoriation, and the comments are not a safe space.
Wow, excoriation… you hit the nail on the head!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I don’t think either of them are bad people but they are both screwing up right now, I think. JD pressures Anwar (unintentionally, I think) to accept sex when JD should know it makes Anwar uncomfortable and Anwar is continuously being rude to them about it. They both could be better.
I find it funny that everyone is so gung-ho about JD being right about not having to apologize.
There is a difference betwen “I’m sorry I did this” which JD has NO reason to say, since JD has no reason to be apologetic for doing what’s fun..
And saying “I’m sorry that made you feel bad.” Being apologetic that you made someone feel uncomfortable is perfectly fine. Of course, that means that you usually have to come to an understanding of “I’m not sorry that I was open about my kinks, cause hey, that’s who I am, but I’m sorry that it made you feel uncomfortable. Let’s see what we can do about this in the future. I’m not going to stop being any less kinky, so let’s see if there -is- a way for you not to be uncomfortable. If not, we’ll have to talk.”
That opens discourse, that opens discussion, and that opens doors for new ways to approach a friendship. Saying “I don’t have anything to apologize for” is closing a door saying “This isn’t at all my fault, it’s all yours, I refuse to recognize that I in any way, shape or form did something that disturbed you.”
And I feel like Anwar is taking that step. He’s uncomfortable, it’s not his thing (or it’s not his thing to see JD doing that suff), so he’s TELLING JD that he won’t be coming back.
I love all the hate for Anwar even though he’s being actually pretty open with his (I assume) best friend about not sharing an interest. Yes it came across kinda douchey, but he’s actually telling his friend versus just never showing up again.
Props for honesty.
These two really are a bad match for any kind of relationship, friends or lovers, based on what has happened previously in the comic.
So much misunderstandings and bad communication.
I hope they work it out on the next page and this isn’t going to blow up. :( But I see how they might be ending up as “ex” best friends…
Did anyone else read Anwar’s lines together? As in, one after the other, as a part of an ongoing dialogue, instead of taking the first one out of context? He isn’t claiming to be “sex positive” as in the definition of “sex positive” The very next line that is after it explains that by “sex positive” he is “positive he doesn’t want sex” I read that as a play on words, not him actually claiming sex positivity. Not excusing either of them; they’re both miss-communicating and miss-understanding each other here, but I’m pretty sure Anwar is not claiming to be sex positive in the same way that JD is accusing him of being sex negative.
Completely unrelated point, knowing someone is into something sexually and being positive and supportive of them does not mean you should have to be comfortable having a front row seat whilst they do it. I’m not just talking about mum and dad either (most people have a knee-jerk EEEW reaction to the thought of their parents having sex, which is my Captain Obvious statement of the day)
I have a wonderful friend who has a very boisterous and exciting sex life and they love to talk about their latest adventures but they also understands that whilst I love them and support them completely, I, for various reasons, don’t want all the details and I certainly don’t want to watch. We had this conversation and set those boundaries and out of love and respect for each other we keep to them (for the most part, we’re not perfect). It isn’t selfishness, or judgemental, or wrong to be different and having having a “higher” or “lower” bar of what you are comfortable with does not make you more or less sex positive, in my opinion. JD and Anwar are two very different people and they need to have this conversation, but it isn’t an easy one to have – and they have a history of poor communication! Eep!
I completely agree with your points made :)
JD really did nothing but instigate this situation. Starting off with an apology and then suddenly going “wait, no, I have nothing to apologize for” is in poor taste, however true it is .. not even mention that sneer in the panel where they stop apologizing. I can practically hear the jerk in their voice looking at that panel.
And then when Anwar tries to agree they don’t have anything to apologize for and says he just doesn’t want any part in the weird (read:sex) stuff, JD freaks. You don’t have to be sex negative to not want to be around kinky stuff/sex stuff and think it’s weird. I’m kinky as crap and it’s fine if my friend calls it weird so long as they’re half as understanding as Anwar is being.
Anwar is basically telling JD they can have their interests and he can have his, he just doesn’t want them to cross. JD, however, is much less tolerant to both asexuality and non-kinkdom. JD is a jerk and escalates every situation.
This! I agree with everything you’ve said :)
Indeed, I agree. I’m into a lot of BDSM, too, but I actually hate being seen (by anyone other than my sex partner) or watching anyone else. (Comics being an exception.) To me, watching or being watched would be weird as hell.
I’m Female-to-Neutrois who is asexual. I like to believe I am sex-positive, however I believe in a thing called privacy and I believe this should be respected at all costs. I’m not saying that sex should not be discussed out in the open but I feel some more intimate details should be privately discussed between consenting partners.
I used to date a highly sexually charged cis-girl who would brag about her sex life she had with me in front of her friends. It made me cringe because I do not brag and I do not think my sex life (or lack there of) is something that should come up in casual discussion.
But I realize that this is the norm – or so I’m told. I think where Anwar is coming from is that what JD does isn’t his business and he is trying to respect that while also staying true to his own feelings.
I can understand JD’s frustration with Anwar. When I first came out as trans* to my parents, of course, they were devastated and brushed it as a ‘phase’. I was upset because I felt rejected as an individual, I thought, “If they don’t accept me, they don’t love me.” (This thought process was wrong and I have learnt from this.)
This frustration seems to ring true with how I perceive JD to be feeling at the moment. JD is happy with their identity and their lifestyle, they have Anwar whom they consider their best friend and while he is supportive of them, he wants to avoid the kinky scene due to personal (JD) reasons and his possible sexual aversion… JD has appeared (understandably) to take this as a somewhat personal jab at their lifestyle as, “You don’t like the kinky scene, you must be sex-negative!” Does it make sense where I’m coming from…?
If it’s one thing that this comic has taught me, is that there are a lot of lines and boundaries between characters. It can be very easy to say a statement that can be entirely misinterpreted as something else. Honesty is the best policy but to do so in a way that you aren’t insulting anybody which can be a double-edged sword sometimes!
So I agree with a lot of the comments who are upset with Anwar and perhaps with his character development. I agree that he’s not a great representation for asexual people.. thus far, anyway. I’m having trouble putting up with him, too; he’s frustrating.
However. Tab has done well with representation and writing lots of different kinds of characters in the past, and they* did a large amount of research in preparation for writing their first asexual character. The story is still building, and I expect all this struggling will pay off, and Anwar will have some good character growth. He is based on an insufferable character from 50 shades, after all. Let’s have some faith in Tab, yeah?
*And now I realize I don’t even know what pronouns Tab uses and can’t find it anywhere. I feel like I’ve seen “he/him” before, but after probably a year of reading these comics, I realize I don’t know all that much about our lovely author (or wasn’t paying close enough attention anyway)!
Tab likes male pronouns, last I checked.
Check the about page- it even has a picture of my face!
Thanks, both of you! I thought I’d checked thoroughly but it turns out the about page back on Khaos does specify pretty clearly, whoops. I remember reading it and seeing that picture before, but it was so long ago, haah.
Ok, ow. The comments section is giving me a headache today.
I am more annoyed with JD in this particular conversation than I am with Anwar. Saying “weird,” especially to your FRIEND, is not a negative thing. I call my friends weird all the time. They call me weird. I have had a sexual partner tell me something I wanted to try was fucked up and made him extremely uncomfortable, to which I shrugged and agreed that it wouldn’t be something that I would try with him. Why are so many people taking JD’s side for jumping down Anwar’s throat about that?
Also, I see Anwar as not blaming JD for taking him to the club. I personally saw JD as being slightly manipulative in getting Anwar to go to the club the FIRST time. The SECOND time was his choice and seems like something I’ve done: first time at a place was kind of uncomfortable, but seemed to get better at the end, so I decided to try it again to see if it was really my thing or not. Turned out, it wasn’t. So I didn’t go anymore. In Anwar’s case, I DO NOT see him as blaming JD at all for the second time. I feel like JD could have been a bit more empathetic, to be honest. Sure, they don’t need to apologize for doing their thing with their subs. BUT they could have been a polite friend and been sorry (in the empathetic sense) for making Anwar uncomfortable.
Also, I get the impression that a lot of people are reading Anwar’s lines with a snotty tone of voice going through their heads. Most of what I get off him is more of a “ah jeeze, what do I say now?” sort of sheepishness in his tone. I hear him as hesitant half the time.
Yes, he needs to engage his brain to mouth filter a little better. SO DO MOST OF US. I know I put my foot in it so often I have taken to simply not talking in comment of anything anyone else says, which is not good either. So what, do you expect Anwar to cringe and beg JD’s forgiveness for offending them? People offend each other. Friends also rib each other.
Also, and this is a bit off on another tangent an in response to some of what I was seeing further up in the comments, I felt like JD was pressuring Anwar to have sex in their previous relationship. THAT IS A HORRIBLE FEELING, EVEN FOR SOMEONE WHO LIKES SEX. I have run into that before and only realized it was happening after the fact. JD wanted sex a lot and thought “oh, poor Anwar is never in charge and never TRIES to be in charge, so I guess he secretly WANTS to have me at his command!” Caps added for emphasis of my point, not JD’s thoughts. JD assumed Anwar wanted sex. JD assumed Anwar wanted to be on top, which seems to be a little bit of gender stereotyping on its own but not something I think is precisely pertinent to my point.
I’m going to stop now because I have to go to work, but I really would like to see what others have to say in response to this. I may make more direct responses on other comments later, when I have more time, but I really wanted to get some of this out before it got too muddled in my head.
Oops, small correction.
“BUT they could have been a polite friend and been sorry (in the empathetic sense) for making Anwar uncomfortable.”
Needs to be:
“BUT they could have been a polite friend and been sorry (in the empathetic sense) that Anwar felt uncomfortable.”
So no, JD doesn’t need to be sorry for making Anwar feel that way because they don’t need to be sorry for doing their thing in an environment geared toward it. But it’s like getting a spider bite: “Oh jeeze dude, sorry that happened to you!” Ya know?
I don’t understand the idea that JD pressured Anwar to have sex.
The first time it came up on page was in Anwar’s bedroom. JD asked him if he wanted to have sex. Then we see oral sex with Anwar giving and JD offering to reciprocate the next time.
Finally, after JD and Anwar have, presumably, been having some sort of sexual relationship, JD offer themselves as a birthday gift to Anwar. At that point, he finally admits to his asexuality and dumps JD before they can get a word in edgewise.
In all of these scenes, I just don’t see JD pressuring Anwar for sex. I see Anwar not clearly communicating his feelings about sex and JD is trusting that Anwar is being honest with them. JD is not a mind reader and what may seem like “clear” signals to the reader is not necessarily clear to the folks experiencing the situation/relationship.
His inability to clearly tell JD “hey, I’m not so into this” seems like a symptom of being pressured into it. I may be totally wrong, but that’s why I got the impression of him being pressured. Also, I don’t see it as a symptom JUST of being pressured. There’s the whole “what’s wrong with me?” line of thought his brain probably follows, too.
If you don’t really want sex, but your partner really does and you do it to make them happy *while still feeling uncomfortable,* that looks (to me) as though you’re being pressured into it. That is separate from having sexual relations with your partner when you’re not particularly in the mood but are comfortable making them feel good anyway.
Thank you SO MUCH for this post. I’ve been intending to write something making many of these same points, but I just didn’t have the emotional energy for it. I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt JD was the main instigator in this conversation.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, although I would like to add that not all friends are comfortable calling each other “weird.” That can vary a lot between friends and that doesn’t seem to be something established as an okay term between them.
I’m totally in the same boat as Anwar. I’m sex-positive… in that I’m positive I don’t want to be exposed to it most of the time. I don’t care what people do, I just prefer not to see it. If someone uses a safe place to express their sexuality and it weirds me out, that’s cool; I’ll stay out of their safe place. I see nothing wrong with what Anwar said to JD. He didn’t have to call it “weird stuff” but at the same time, he doesn’t have to act like he finds it fine when he doesn’t. And it’s within his right to say that he won’t go to the club anymore. He would’ve been a jerk if he said, “Hey, when I go to the club, don’t do that weird stuff.” But he didn’t say that.
I agree with you completely here.
Okay, here I’m actually going to advocate in favor of Anwar:
He’s not saying anything bad about the kink community. He’s not saying anything like “Fetishists should burn,” or anything like that. He’s just saying that he thinks it’s weird and that he isn’t comfortable going there. And that’s good! He’s communicating his feelings and establishing boundaries! These are great strides for him!
I for one think furries are weird, and that’s fine. I think they’re fine people, but it’s not for me. On my nights off I wear red contacts and go out in the city dressed as a goth, and I’m sure lots of people think it’s weird, but I’m okay with that. What’s weird for some might be normal for others and vice versa.
JD is getting defensive, but Anwar hasn’t said anything bad about them, and even admits he shouldn’t have been there and won’t be going back. Sounds real simple really.
Exactly, especially on the personal definition of weird. Everyone has their own!
I happen to be a large-figured, cis-gendered female who identifies as female (mostly? I never really use pronouns in my head and have trouble meeting other female-identities on the some levels), but I find the idea of people who pursue people of my body type specifically because of that body type and who take sexual pleasure in the jiggle of the pudgy bits kind of weird. The people tend to be nice, honestly, but that attraction boggles my mind and ends up making me feel a bit squicked out because I usually only encounter it when being approached for sexual activities.
So yes, weird is a personal thing and has a lot to do with personal proclivities as well as personal experience. Sorry that got a bit long.
This is completely off-topic, but for some reason I managed to misread your description of yourself as a “large-figured dragon woman.” I have no idea how I got that, but it’s late for me right now, so maybe that has something to do with it. I was very confused and wondering why I hadn’t heard of that kink, but it turns out I made it up. Oops.
Thank you, I just snorted my tea, and I think I woke my roommate up with my laughter! (This is not a bad reaction for me!)
Still on the off-topic, I suppose it could refer to the scaley end of the Furry spectrum. But you’re right, that wasn’t my intention, and that is a very funny misunderstanding.
One thing I keep having to remind myself is that Anwar is young (just finished college – UK is what, 21?), apparently somewhat sheltered, and tends to over-dramatize everything. It’s not just sex. His reaction to his school results are one example. I seriously keep wanting Anwar to “grow up”, but it doesn’t just automatically happen overnight – and it’s unfair to lay that burden on him from my own expectations.
It doesn’t help that JD comes across as more mature, has right from the get-go, when they are younger (assumed based on their arrival during “freshers week” while Anwar and his other friend from the Magic group were already there). Their maturity, combined with the obviously calmer maturity of Chris, makes Anwar seem even more like some angsty teen flipping out about every stupid little thing.
Wow. I’m just not on everyone else’s page at ALL. I think JD is being a total douche in this page. (I actually think JD is a total douche a lot).
They literally went on the offensive BEFORE Anwar said anything. It’s not like Anwar demanded an apology, nope, JD started to give one, then got angry at theirself being “forced” to give one by Anwar, then started going on the offensive.
And y’all, if I had a friend who I had a very complicated history with, and they showed up at a club that I was going to do a scene at, I’m not sure what I would do. I might choose to do it anyway, I might not (because it’d feel weird for me). But if they then initiated a conversation saying “hey, I’m probably not going to go there anymore” I’d be all “yeah, that’d be nice so we don’t run into each other in awkward ways”. Not “sorry, no wait I’m not sorry because YOU shouldn’t have had any problems if you’re going to show up there!”
And if I knew they were asexual??? Jeez, I wouldn’t shame them for not enjoying seeing sex. And I ESPSECIALLY wouldn’t shame them for not wanting to particularly watch ME (their friend with a complicated history with them) have sex. Like seriously? That’s super douchey. Many people don’t want to watch people they know well have sex (unless they feel sexy pants feelings for them).
OK. I have literally gone through the entire archive analyzing ‘war and JD’s relationship. I think that I have probably being a bit too hard on JD recently. JD isn’t a total jerk. But I still think everyone who thinks that ‘war is a jerk and JD is not are deluding themselves. There is a lot of language throughout the series indicating that ‘war is pretty upfront (in the present) with JD about being uncomfortable with having sexuality “in his face” so to speak, AND that JD does not actually respect that discomfort. Here are some examples (partial list):
the third page literally has him trying to convince them to ask someone else saying “couldn’t you just go with some of your queer friends instead?” this is clearly language meant to say “look, I don’t really want to…” but in a non-confrontational way. If I ask a friend if they’d come with me to a superhero movie, and they say “couldn’t you just ask one of your comic book liking friends instead?” that is pretty clear that they would prefer not to do so, so being a respectful friend I would say “hey, no prob”. This was exactly the same. JD does not do that.
The 19th page: JD tells ‘war that Chris is in the studio taking photos, then says “you know you want to bring me tea” which is coercive language (if I ask a friend to come to something, that is very different than “you know you want to come” one is an honest request, the other is meant to on a low level shame the other person into doing it if they did not actually want to, this is a common linguistic quirk that many people engage in, yet when used regarding something you know another person wouldn’t want to do, is indeed coercive). In this situation JD does *not* warn ‘war that Chris will be dressed in sexualized clothing (we know as the story progresses that JD has known since they broke up that ‘war is uncomfortable with sex, this to me is a purposeful attempt to put ‘war in an uncomfortable position, even if it is ALSO meant to help ‘war out because JD has decided that ‘war likes Chris).
On page 20, Anwar responds to this situation saying “you aren’t going to make me dress up and take pictures, are you?” The language (“make”) makes it clear that ‘war is uncomfortable with that level of sexuality, and feels like JD might indeed coerce him into it. JD follows that not by saying “of course not,” or “sorry bout that, thought we’d be finished with the sexy stuff” but instead “why, you offering?” with a raised eyebrow, thus further sexualizing the situation that ‘war has clearly expressed discomfort with.
On Page 37 Anwar and JD are discussing ‘war’s interest in Chris. Anwar clearly states: “he’s into well… *that stuff* and the most I’d ever want to do is cuddle” As such JD has explicitly had it stated in text that ‘war does not desire sex, but does like physical intimacy. It is also clear (whatever you may think about ‘war’s discomfort with sexuality) that he is very uncomfortable with it, not even being able to say the words aloud, instead saying “*that stuff*” This is followed later by them at a club (pages 48-51) and JD oversharing, saying “they’re so fucking fit- the things I want to do to them or have them do to EACH OTHER. YESSS” (formatting original, page 51). When ‘war says “I didn’t want to know that much” JD says “pfft. you asked.” The “asked” in question is ‘war saying “how does that even work?” (page 50) about having “some kind of… Thing with them?” (yes. this is ‘war being judgy, however the response is unneedfully sexual. saying “they want someone to dom them, and I want to dom them” is sufficient and not sexual, starting to go into how fucking “fit” someone is, and how you just want to make them do blah blah, I can just here the “unf” in JD’s voice, and the visuals show them making grabby hands). They are both drunk so I give them both a mini pass for this.
Now, let’s also talk what actually happened that night. Anwar and Chris show up, Anwar notices JD and approaches them in a friendly manner. JD is the one who looks uncomfortable at this at the time (page 88) and says “Uh…Hey. I didn’t know you’d be um, coming back?” at which point JD’s sub Ellen returns with drinks. Both Anwar AND JD look uncomfortable at this point. In the following page (89), JD tells the sub that war is probably uncomfortable and as such the sub (who is naked but for rope harness) sits down and they start talking all three about something television related?. When ‘war quickly exits on Chris’ approach it is clear to the reader that ‘war is uncomfortable. This is NOT JD’s fault, certainly, but a) Anwar never implies it is, b) JD is clearly also uncomfortable and c) rather than admit that they are uncomfortable, JD puts this entire thing on Anwar’s discomfort, rather than their own.
And now we get to their conversation, where JD is again putting this on Anwar, rather than owning that this made them uncomfortable as well, and where JD is telling Anwar he is not sex positive when it is JD who has been for the entire text placing Anwar in sexual situations EVEN AFTER having been told about Anwar’s discomfort with sex.
All of the points made were valid, but none of them moves JD into the “jerk” column IMO. If I nit-picked JD’s actions in this post with my friends, I would have no friends. Example: my best friend has “coerced” me into seeing every Twilight movie at the theater. I hate those movies, surreptitiously check my watch until its over and dread the inevitable rehash afterwards. But, I do it because it means so much to her and that’s just what friends do.
So, JD talking Anwar into going to the club, oversharing their activities with the subs in their enthusiasm, arranging a meet up with Chris and all the other examples in this post seem like things for which one would make allowances for a friend. In light of how Anwar has behaved (harsh break up with JD, pressuring Chris into gay sex more than once, crying about his feelings for JD (the ex) on Chris’ shoulder, etc.), criticisms of JD seem kind of nitpicky to me.
As for JD’s behavior in this past page, they clearly took offense at having their kink called “weird”. Whether or not I think it is offensive, to them, it came across as judgmental and negative. Hopefully the next page will have Anwar clarifying what he meant and JD listening.
Yes, but they had ALSO gone on the attack PRIOR to this. One doesn’t get to retroactively have the reason you blew up at someone be something they said *after* you blew up at them.
My initial comment was worded poorly. I don’t believe that Anwar is faultless and JD is a total jerk: I believe that Anwar has done some truly stupid shit, and that JD is not being a good friend to someone who is asexual. My initial wording was meant to be in contrast to people who seem to think that Anwar is totally unreasonable and that JD is faultless. Putting aside how Anwar is with Chris (because that’s about their relationship), how JD treats Anwar isn’t great. They coerce him into attending sexualized events repeatedly, are uncomfortable with having him see them play but go ahead, and then get angry at him for saying (totally reasonably) that he probably is going to stop attending the club.
Their breakup was a clusterfuck, but it was equal parts both of them. If a guy has been having sex with his girlfriend without actually checking in that she *likes it* (we NEVER have JD in text actually check in that Anwar is enjoying it), we would (I hope) acknowledge that while he is following “no means no” he isn’t following “yes means yes” (which is to say, eliciting active enthusiasm for sex). This is exactly what happened here, other than the gender roles with Anwar being male and JD (at the time) identifying as feminine. If, in this theoretical situation, the boyfriend offered yet MORE sex (without a discussion about it) as a birthday gift it would be a) not totally awesome and b) a pretty clear indication that he mostly relates to her as a sexual person. So Anwar exploding at being treated as mostly a sex dispensing machine? There is no in-text reason to believe that ISN’T how their relationship has been.
I’m a little confused, here. How is being dragged along to a movie you don’t like anywhere near the level of uncomfortable Anwar clearly experiences when having sex-based, explicit sexuality shoved in his face when he doesn’t want it?
A friend, especially one who knows it makes you VERY uncomfortable to even say the word sex, should know better than to shove details of what they want to do to someone in your face.
I have to agree, though, that the “why, you want to?” bit from the photo shoot does seem like some friendly ribbing rather than being rude. It’s also dealing with clothes, not the aspects of sex-based sexuality that Anwar is uncomfortable with. Getting him to come over to the shoot was, at a low level, manipulative; I agree with TheDeviantE on that one. I don’t put that that as a tally in the JD being a jerk column, though, because as Deviant mentioned, it’s a pretty typical type of phrasing that I think is usually not meant to be cruelly manipulative. JD also knew Chris would be (somewhat) clothed and not in any active sexual poses; sexy poses, yes, and slightly provocative, but not “spread your legs and take of your panties” sexual, so while Anwar might be a little uncomfortable, in JD’s mind it probably wouldn’t squick him out as much as, say, watching a porn shoot.
JD does appear to try and be nicer about it sometimes; in the first visit to the kink club, Anwar expresses his discomfort with the whipping and JD lets him know where he can go to get away from it while they talk with the demonstrator about more details. That’s a cool thing to do, especially with JD’s probable knowledge of the “don’t touch if you didn’t ask first” rule that the kink club enforces.
My analogy was more applicable to JD talking Anwar into going to the club the first time or JD inviting him over when Chris was there. My point is people may do stuff they don’t care to out of love for a friend.
However, JD oversharing their new subs, to me, is understandable. Anwar was asking about it and JD was obviously excited about the couple and their kink. So, not sure how JD can be slammed for not knowing exactly “how much” Anwar wanted to know about their thing with the subs when he asked.
Their first visit was all sorts of problematic. JD didn’t take Anwar’s soft “no” for an answer, and on top of that, in text we see Anwar being visibly uncomfortable with the whipping happening, JD ignoring that, and then semi-mocking him by saying “stop flinching, he isn’t going to hit you”
If I am freaked out by spiders, and a friend asks me to attend a Spider expo, and I respond saying “couldn’t you just ask one of your fellow arachnophiles?” but I end up going, that’s because a friend didn’t listen to my soft no (that can partially be on me, but it is also an indication that my friend doesn’t listen to my discomfort). If I THEN am freaked out by seeing the spiders, and my friend is busy chatting with a spider breeder and doesn’t notice me being uncomfortable and then says “stop flinching” when ze does notice? Not cool.
I agree that JD talking Anwar into going to the kink club was selfish on their part. But, again, Anwar could have told JD he was sex/kink repulsed and didn’t want to go. Anwar chose to go. He could have left at any time, but he chose to stay and had a good time talking with other club members. All of Anwar’s choices (and the consequences) are not JD’s fault. The fact Anwar wanted to go AGAIN with Chris, absolutely no pressure from Chris, would indicate that he can handle being in that kink environment.
So, it seems to me, JD talking Anwar into going to the club is part of the give/take of a normal friendship. Anwar clearly wasn’t upset with them, so not sure why the readers would be so harsh with JD.
“…so not sure why the readers would be so harsh with JD.”
I think that’s exactly the point. So many readers are harsh with Anwar for similarly small reasons and some slightly bigger reasons. Many readers completely ignore the fact that JD has done similar small and slightly bigger things that are not cool towards Anwar. This results in this good/bad dichotomy where many people in the comments section (definitely the majority up until recently) often express strong feelings and harsh criticisms against Anwar while writing as if they view JD as faultless or the victim of Anwar’s actions in all situations (while never holding any responsibility themselves). I think part of TheDeviantE’s point was that this is not a fair way to assess the characters. Both JD and Anwar have done some crummy things to each other and both share responsibility for their friendship being pretty bumpy.
I personally agree with much of what TheDeviantE has been saying. I definitely think JD’s been getting too much of a pass and that they have been, in some ways, a jerk to Anwar. But I also admit Anwar has been much less than perfect. I just wish all the negativity didn’t fall on just one character. And I especially wish the negativity that falls on an asexual character (that some readers can relate to) wouldn’t sound so much like criticisms of many ace people or of things many ace people do or say.
wow, so many judgmental people in just one website. calm down, guys. i do think anwar is being a dick, but he’s figuring himself out, and didn’t see the “weird” remark as something offensive? it wasn’t meant as an insult, and as tab said, he meant jd+sex. i wouldnt be comfortable watching my best friend having sex, even if its vanilla or even just groping. it’d think it was weird too.
i think people are judging anwar too harshly, yes he’s been a dick but since when everybody is perfect, sex positive (also, i do agree with several people saying that being sex positive is waaay different than being ok with people having sex right in front of you) and always says the right things.
i do think jd was the one who fucked up here with that patronizing attitude to be honest, anwar is just reacting badly at the remark too.
Thinking further on this, I was realizing there’s two things colouring this dialogue.
One is something that Anwar doesn’t seem to be ‘fessing up to. He’s learned to be open about his “positive he doesn’t want anything to do with sex” identification, but I see no indication beyond his drunk call to Chris that he has admitted this is less about OMG SEX and more about JD has other peoples and Anwar can’t compete, so he’s internally certain he’s losing JD. (There’s even hints that, from his asexual bias, he has decided that anyone not asexual must be sex-obsessed. At least three times he has assumed Chris must want sex, without any such request made directly.)
The other is that Anwar has managed to equate seemingly everything to sex. A video gift must be porn. Picking a drunk friend up from a bar must be rewarded with sex. Near-nudity is sex. Paddling is sex. He actually goes beyond simply asexual (not personally having a sexual desire for another) to anti-sexual (not wanting to be around, hear about, or involved with what he defines as sex).
Is it any surprise there are constant misunderstandings and misinterpretations between JD and Anwar?
Oh, on the note of being the most accepting friend, one thing we haven’t seen is JD’s transition and how their friends reacted along the way. Anwar my not have felt threatened at all by JD’s gender identity, and thus been much more accepting – while some people who could be “queer friends” can actually be a little difficult if one does not go with an understood binary (hetero/homo, male/female).
Dude, he thought the video would be porn because JD’s other (first, and *biggest*) birthday present was explicitly sex. How is it not reasonable to expect that if someone gives you *their self* as a birthday present a wrapped video might be porn.
I agree that Anwar assumes that sex matters more to other people, but honestly, the in text stuff with JD IS primarily sexual. JD asks Anwar to come with them to a sex club, JD initiates a sexual discussion/relationship when they are in Anwar’s bedroom, JD and Anwar having oral sex some time. JD talking about their “kinky sluts.” The main times that they haven’t been sexual were when they literally first met (playing Magic), and when Anwar is desolate about his scores and JD takes him dancing/for cokes. EVERYTHING about their relationship that isn’t Anwar-initiated (in text that we’ve seen) is sexual in natural.
I agree that Anwar is doing some way weird stuff in terms of relating to Chris (even after they have explicitly said no sex, he offers? weird), but in terms of JD we have seen no actual in-text evidence that JD isn’t as sexual as Anwar perceives them.
I totally agree that JD is very sexual, but is completely honest and open about it. The fact that Anwar continues with the friendship should indicate that he accepts that part. So, when Anwar asks JD how a dom/sub/sub “works”, it is completely reasonable that he will hear a kink-heavy explanation. I thought JD’s reply was pretty vanilla-no kink-specific details. Their enthusiasm is understandable and they stopped when Anwar called TMI. I just don’t see fault in JD in that scene.
Anwar phrased that really really poorly (calling BDSM “weird stuff”) I don’t think it’s an issue that he doesn’t want to see it. Being sex repulsed isn’t a crime, and not wanting to witness BDSM scenes is totally reasonable. I’m actively involved in the kink community and I don’t want to see every scene (I remove myself from the areas where needles scenes are being done) and it’s okay to not like something, as long as you aren’t telling people there is something wrong with them for liking it. Anwar isn’t sex negative just because he doesn’t want to see sex acts or BDSM acts, he’s just sex-repulsed and not kinky.
Also “sex positive” people shame the shit out of asexuals all the time. Not all of them, but enough to make plenty of asexuals very uncomfortable with the entire “sex positive” community. They pressure us to have sex with our partners even if we don’t want it or are sex repulsed. A lot of “sex positive” people are fucking awful to sex-repulsed and sex-averse asexuals and their rhetoric is generally completely alienating to asexuals even if they aren’t actively shaming us. Anwar is pretty reasonable in avoiding claiming to be sex positive.
Why does it say “ta very much”? Am I mis-reading that?
Way early on in the comic it came up that “ta” is “thank you” – a particular British slang.