Shades Of A 116
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Anwar’s friend is gross. Blugh.
Wait, is he where Anwar gets the idea that all people are obsessed with sex?
Well, in comparison to celibate asexuals, everyone IS obsessed with sex. Especially if you’re involved in the young people parts of the queer community like Anwar is. On the scale of caring to not-caring about sex, Anwar is at 0, and even if you’re only a 2 that’s four times as much as him (ignore my maths fail there, it’s only an analogy).
I don’t get the impression that Anwar’s involved with the queer community at all, aside from being friends with JD.
WORSE! He’s in highschool.
Anwar is at university, not high school.
WORSE! That guy never LEFT highschool! ;P
That’s more the vibe I’m getting off him.
A lot of aces think everyone is obsessed with sex. It’s an insecurity thing. Thing is he’s been bombarded his whole life that sex is healthy and necessary in relationships, and the fact he can’t relate to that obviously freaks him out and thinks he has to do it in order to be a normal functioning member of society, and he kind of resents everyone for it. Of course he’s wrong, but he’ll figure that out, hopefully. Chris is a very good start.
Huh, I’ve never considered it to be an insecurity. Sometimes I think I’m the only one in the world not interested in kink or sex, and then I have nothing to offer a conversation or it would seem like I get left out. Perhaps it’s just the circles I socialize in. Perhaps I need to reevaluate my perspective.
Ugh, straight boys *rolls eyes*
Yes, because we’re ALL like that.
omg, do you shitheads practice your Standard Reply or what?
…But he’s right…
Shitheads?! Now, now…
No no, it’s okay! If it’s something I’ve learned from seeing the comments on this site is that it’s okay to be aggressive and insulting when you’re in the minority/oppressed group since it can be explained away and no one in the minority/oppressed group has to take responsibility for their words!
I mean it’s not like people can be shitty regardless of what group they’re in, right? Pfft.
Let’s just agree that people can be shitheads no matter what. And stop calling an entire group “shitheads” just because of one greasy, over-sexed representative such as ‘War’s friend.
yeah, a person making a straight boy joke is SO AGGRESSIVE. you know what is aggressive? all the shit straight boys do to oppressed people that none of you other straight boys give a shit about. but GOD FORBID someone make a straight boy joke jfc
@Micah. Who said I was a straight boy? Also, the person calling another commenter a shithead is where the ‘aggressive’ part was coming from.
You shouldn’t assume things, Micah.
If I’m going to stand up for those outside of my “straight boy” classification and their right to live a life that isn’t constantly beset by probing, uncomfortable questions from total strangers, negative assumptions from close-minded morons, and violent vitriol from the hardliners of a predominantly heteronormative culture… Why should I THEN stand for “jokes” made at my own expense.
No one should be making broad, sweeping generalizations like that about any group, regardless of whether they’re the minority or the majority. Hate breeds only hate, and all that. It also makes those of us who may want to be allies to the cause feel unwelcome.
And I know that this is something those who aren’t straight, white males deal with daily. I get that, in a way, it’s just putting the shoe on the other foot, striking back at the regime… All of that, and then some. I get that it might just be cathartic venting.
But if acceptance is going to grow, it has to come from all sides. It can’t be bullied or embittered out of people, as tempting as it may be to indulge those perfectly justified emotions.
I guess what I’m saying is, learn from Fred Rogers, not Fred Phelps.
When a member of an oppressed group makes an angry comment regarding their oppressors, they’re not saying that every last person in that group is terrible. They’re venting. They’re frustrated at the behaviors or mindsets that they frequently see expressed by that group in general, or by a specific individual from that group. Sarah here has probably encountered many straight boys like Anwar’s friend here who show this sort of gross behavior. It is not an attack on every single straight boy in existence. It is an expression of disgust at the straight boys who do this sort of thing.
It’s an expression that DOES groups people negatively. You’re willing to enable that?
Until straight men as a group stop benefiting from the oppression of non-straight non-men, yes, I am completely willing to enable non-straight non-men so that they can express their frustrations without needing to stop every single time to say “oh, but only SOME straight boys are like this, YOU’RE okay!”
No offense, but I have to disagree. As a black woman I think it’s destructive to speak that way. I don’t care if you’ve had the upper hand for 400+ years or what have you. Just because society favors you does not mean you are at fault. By your logic I should be able to include all whites (male or female) and others outside of the LGBT community in my rantings. Because ALL whites are racist, because ALL gay people hate me for being bisexual and call me a breeder, because ALL straight people are homophobes and give me a hard time. No. Even if none of your friends fall out of your own category, to think that those on the outside are inherently oppressive because of history is not good for anyone.
I don’t think anyone was implying that everyone in the majority group is problematic or does the problematic behavior…I think that was a big part of what maffick was explaining. Those types of comments/rants are not meant to say that every single person in the majority community commits those offenses, just that some (and at times, more than half) do. The original comment never said all straight boys. I agree with maffick that someone in a minority community shouldn’t need to write a disclaimer on every comment they make that they don’t mean everyone in the majority community. I would think that could be assumed. And if you look at it another way, for the most part any negative thing a person in a minority community does is counted against the whole community and any minority person in a mostly majority area ends up being the “token” person of that minority and expected to speak for their entire group. There are a lot of assumptions of universality when applied to people in minority groups. I honestly think every once in a while a majority group facing a comment like this, especially if they view it as speaking about every one of them, could be a good thing. In a very small way it could serve to remind them of what minority groups go through daily. But the fact is, no one really sees it that way in every day life. If one straight person, or one white person, or one man, or one cisgender person (etc.) does something wrong or falls short of expectations, that does not fall back on the entire majority group. The majority group does not suddenly start looking worse because of what the one person did and no one will use that one person as an excuse to say that all people of that group are a certain way. When statements like, “ugh, straight boys” are made it is because there are a lot more than just one person perpetrating the problem…enough that it can be recognized as a problem and not just something that one or a couple people who happen to be of the majority group do.
I definitely agree with pErSpNa that being in the majority doesn’t and shouldn’t mean that you are at fault. But at the same time, someone in the majority has been part of an oppressive system and has almost definitely perpetrated or helped in the continuation of some type of oppression (sexism, racism, heterosexism, cissexism, ableism, etc.). I think it’s important for those in the majority to realize, accept, and own that and to not get defensive when someone in the minority points it out or voices how they’ve been hurt by people in the majority in the past. As a white person I would definitely not feel great about myself if a person of color said “ugh, white people” but I would accept their comment and as best as I could understand where the comment came from because it is likely that the person had been hurt by many white people in the past, while many more simply enjoyed their own white privilege and did not choose to help fight the oppression the person of color was facing when they witnessed it. I personally don’t think it would be my place to step in and say, “I’m not like that!” or “it’s not all white people!” I feel like that would only serve to further silence people of color, to police how they express their feelings, and to generally impose my own white privilege to be sure that I do not ever feel uncomfortable (despite the fact that the system of racism, which white people feed into when they are not actively fighting against it, makes people of color feel uncomfortable often).
So much love for this comment. You shouldn’t generalize any group of people. Period. Is it so hard to just say “Ugh, this guy.'” or “I hate inconsiderate people.” rather then attacking an entire group.
@pErSoNa, I like you. You clever, logical person you. It’s refreshing to hear a fellow black woman say that.
Oh, in case I get slammed for that last sentence. I said it because, in my neck of the woods, the black people I’m around are angry, walking stereotypes who are willing to ‘kick out’ anyone that doesn’t abide by their bullshit ‘rules.’ There are few that break the mold.
I tip my hat to you! The world would be a far better place if marginalized groups were allowed to vent about privilege making people into giant douchenuggets.
The problem with this comment is not an oppressed/oppressor perspective. It is reinforcing stereotypes. All those jokes “Oh, women jump up on chairs when they see mice” “Oh, men only think of sex” are reinforcing stereotypes. Not helpful
To say that it is not coming from or does not have the dynamic of an oppressed/oppressor perspective is to completely ignore the history and current presence of sexism and heterosexism in the world. Whenever a comment specifically calls out a dominant/majority group of people, especially when coming from someone who may be in the minority (and is thus regularly oppressed by that group), it is very much about the oppressed vs. the oppressor and the fact that most often people in the oppressing/dominant/majority group make comments and take actions that silence those in the minority. When someone is expressing a feeling of frustration about the way people of a certain dominant/majority group typically or generally act (and NOT specifically stating that they mean every last person who is a member of that group) I don’t think it is helpful to attack them, put them down, or silence them by allowing those in the majority to wine that “I’m not like that!” or “Not all of us are like that!” Of course not everyone in the group is like that, but if you allow the original comment to be derailed into appeasing and making comfortable those in the majority who already have the privilege in the situation, you also allow those in the minority to be criticized and ignored rather than having their feelings heard and validated.
I have to agree with Tyler on this one. Those small “harmless” comments is how it all starts. I’d hate to see a world where we just keep moving to the next group to oppress. I think most of us would rather see no one being bullied or worse. It would be better if the post DID call out a specific person, not an entire group. Because no group of people all view things the same, there’s no such thing as a true or good stereotype. In this long and hard fight for equality, we all have to be willing to accept that group hating in any form is wrong. Call out the oppressors, not their race or gender/sexuality.
It’s not that we don’t want their feelings to be heard or that we think they are invalid. Nor are we trying to make them appease us. It’s just us saying, hey, our feelings matter too. I personally do not attack other groups, and beiing a straight male myself, do not fall into the whole “lesbians are hot together” thing. So just as it would be wrong to say “ugh gays *rolls eyes*” it’s also wrong to do that to any group.
When a member of an oppressed group says something like, “Ugh, straight boys *rolls eyes*” what they’re saying is, “I’ve been facing negativity and hatred my whole life, and I think the solution to this is to add more negativity and hatred to the world.” No one has the right to stereotype or generalize anyone, period.
Tyler, I don’t view it like that at all. Consider this post: http://kinglers.tumblr.com/post/74158495472/trans-person-looks-at-media-sees-no-trans (From the larger link Silas posted, which is awesome!)
Someone in the minority saying “ugh, straight boys” is expressing their own feelings and opinions about a GROUP of people who have oppressed them. They are not singling out every single straight boy, or any particular straight boy. So why is it necessary to police their words and derail the conversation by making it about “protecting” straight boys?
It’s necessary because equality means everyone is treated equally. If a white person makes a racist comment, they would (rightfully) be called out on it because racism is wrong. Therefore if a black person makes a racist comment (even about white people) they should also be called out because racism is wrong. This is the same situation. Heterophobia is just as wrong as homophobia. Yes, straight people haven’t gone through the same level of hatred and horror about their sexuality as LGBTQ have, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to say hateful things about them.
But that’s just it…saying “ugh, straight boys” is not inherently hateful. In fact, it isn’t really hateful at all. It’s an expression of someone’s personal feelings and experiences, most likely someone who has been oppressed and personally discriminated against by straight boys. It makes perfect sense for a person in the minority to have these feelings and it is appropriate and important to allow these feelings to be heard. That is very different than saying “ugh, gay people.” There the “ugh, gay people” has no inherent truth or meaning behind it. Gay people do NOT and CANNOT inflict any real institutional harm on straight people because they do NOT have the power in society. Individually, sure, some gay people can be prejudice against straight people. But no one would understand a statement like “ugh, gay people,” as anything but hateful because gay people as a group do nothing harmful against straight people and have no way to be “heterophobic” (which, incidentally, is not really a thing in a society where heterosexuality is assumed and seen as normative). So a statement such as that would have to have its roots in prejudice (and thus hate). Prejudice and hate would be the only reasons straight people would have to say “ugh, gay people” since gay people do not personally hurt, assault, attack, injure, etc. them. That is very different from a person in a minority group, who has experienced institutionalized oppression from the majority group and thus clearly has a reason and truth behind their statement, that say “ugh, straight boys.” Since straight boys as a group have used their power in society to oppress this person, this person’s statement makes sense as an expression of their feelings towards the group and is not inherently hateful or prejudice. If the person said, “I hate all straight boys” that would be very different…but that is not what was said.
this is more trans-specific but can be applied to most any oppressed group and their oppressors:
kinglers.tumblr.com/post/74165078272/a-really-great-powerpoint-that-shuts-down-every
if you feel the need to correct a straight boy joke after seeing a character behave this way, you probably are “like that”
If you really feel that things can be that easily divided into black and white, then I have no choice but to leave you to your assumptions.
Here to confirm that straight boys are not a stereotype -_-
Or straight girls. But I HAVE said things like this before. Not to ace friends of mine (all two of them that I know of.)
Yeah, it’s not about you, Trosit and fangwulf. It’s about that commenter and THEIR feelings, THEIR interactions with straight guys, especially the ones that ARE like that. When you say “Not all [[blank]] are like that” in response to someone in a minority expressing frustration, you are basically saying “Your right to express your feelings is less important than my right to not be criticized.”
Exactly! Diva, you explained this perfectly (and much more succinctly than I did when I tried). I’ve heard people from just about every majority group out there say things like “But I’m not like that!” or “Not all of us are like that!” or “You shouldn’t generalize!” in response to a person in the minority group expressing their own feelings of frustration or their own experience of being oppressed/discriminated against. It really does typically amount to people in the majority exerting their privilege to say that their comfort level or “freedom” to not be criticized is more important than a person in the minority being able to voice their feelings.
Lol, funny how you thought this was at all about me. No, this is for anyone who thought a single group of people could be so easily degraded.
here to confirm that everyone already friggin knew that.
I don’t think anyone should be generalised. period. this coming from an asexual aromantic homosexual transman. I know more FEMALES and non-hetero males like this than I do straight boys. So please just don’t. Yes you can have an opinion. Yes oppression and stuff sucks. but I live by the standard of “do unto others as you wish to be done to you”. so since you like to generalise and stuff I’m going to. “Ugh, people who go by Sarah anywhere are so boring”. not nice is it?
Sorry if this is rude, and feel free not to resppnd, but I didn’t realise it was possible to be asexual aromantic and homosexual at the same time? Sorry for going off-topic, I’m just curious
Essentially i find men attractive and I would very much like to kiss them. However I have zero interest in having sex myself and have little interest in romance… actually romance makes me feel weird. So I count myself as gay. I could just say “i’m gay” but then that leads to the flaw of someone trying to wine and dine me or get in bed with me and just no.
Ah, I see. thanks for responding
Hi…original commenter here…I just meant to be funny, I didn’t want to hurt anyone, honest. Please stop being all negative and fighting.
I feel like it’s important to say this here, I don’t think anyone is mad at you! Don’t feel bad for your comment, it just happened to lead to a lengthy discussion. I don’t think we’re fighting here, just everyone trying to express themselves all at once and it gets messy at times. So yes, it’s not you that is the problem, it’s moreso the comment just happened to serve as a doorway into the conversation, so again, don’t feel bad!
Can someone dropkick ‘War’s douchey friend please?
Gladly!
*dropkicks*
I’m assuming Anwar hasn’t set up personal boundaries with his friends. A simple “Hey, I don’t wanna hear about JD’s relationships with other people, please.” would help. A lot.
Even though a lot of us expect people to have common sense and decency, we still have to tell people where our boundaries are. They aren’t mind readers. So yeah, Anwar’s friend is being a jerk and Anwar should tell him to knock it off.
He think he’s a freak for not wanting sex. I assumed that he hasn’t said anything to his friend was the same as why he didn’t tell JD – he’s scared and insecure and not only is everyone obsessed with sex, that means everyone except him. It’s hard to feel like you’re all alone in the world. Gross friend or not, he’s a ‘friend’ and with JD gone… Anwar might be feeling like he really would be all alone if he said something.
Anwar looks like he has a communication problem across the board. What JD does is none of his business or his friend’s businesses. In this particular case it doesn’t look like a ‘sex’ thing more like “I’m still hurting over dumping JD” thing.
I was thinking the same thing. Hearing that your ex is dating someone else is usually not a pleasant topic at best and is obviously painful for Anwar here. This can be true no matter one’s sexuality.
Hey, it’s only been like three pages since he learned it was possible for him to open his mouth and have actual truthful words come out…and being so dickfaced about it means it didn’t exactly blow his mind with how good-ideay communication is. :)
Whatever that means, indeed, War.
Still just want to give you squeezes.
bleh. We just finished a JD/Anwar flashback! Not really looking forward to more. Is this required to keep with loosely following the 50 SoG outline? It would be nice to know if I should blame my annoyance on the book’s poor storytelling, or on Anwar being even more flavors of inept at feelings (more with the obsessing over the past, etc.).