Sir, Butler and Boy ~ Rules and Regulations ~ Page 12
This page is very sound effect heavy but I think it was important to make it clear what’s going on.
EDIT:
I’ve been catching up on your comments and I went back and checked the warnings that I put on the first page and realised that I’ve dropped the ball as far as describing what the real content of this story was. If you’re finding this page concerning I’ve got an explanation below which you can highlight to read for those who prefer to avoid spoilers:
This is part of the fantasy that Jefferson requested in his aforementioned note. John and James are both trying to live up to his (and their own) expectations of what being a dom should be, all the while trying to communicate without breaking character. This is explained in the last few pages of the story as they cool down after the scene is over.
I apologise that this wasn’t made clear enough in the main story, I’ll now be going back and editing the main warnings to better reflect what a reader would expect. This story will be finishing up monday 16th if you’d like to come back and read it all to get the full context. I appreciate that this might not be the story for everyone but it hit on some important things for me that I wanted to explore. The next story (Pheasant Pluckers) is a much softer story about them going on a holiday together so feel free to just skip this one and join me once again Wednesday 18th when it starts going up.
“Your fantasy” Oh James hon, he never said that. LISTEN. That is so so so important and is a lesson that can be taken from this. “Do whatever idc” does NOT mean they actually want what you might want.
I’ve updated the main description with some extra info to explain this a page a bit better!
Ahhh that makes sense! I hadn’t thought of that part of it, just the immediate context. Thank you for clearing that up, Tab!
Umm… this dubious consent in this scene is still so confusing to me.
Thank you for letting me know your concerns- I’ve added some extra info to the description above to make it less confusing.
Is the intention here that James wasn’t going to fuck Jefferson but just get off between his legs? Or is this still going into the disaster-zone with a Jefferson that doesn’t want to be screwed and a James that doesn’t know any better?
Does it even matter? I don’t think James’s behavior gets a free pass with “psych! My dick isn’t going in you, so we’re going to just be okay with all of this.”
I don’t really think that he should be given a “free pass” at all for this. I think everyone in this scene has a LOT of talking to do. I was mostly thinking that the worse possible thing in this situation is for James to breech Jefferson’s trust by crossing a limit that James hasn’t even thought to ask about. The whole situation is a mess. I’m just hoping it isn’t going to be the more personally wounding of the two options (for Jefferson). All I really want is for them to talk a second and STOP. We need to see someone using safe words the way they’re meant to be used.
There’s one more page of this scene and then they talk during the cool down after. I’ve added some extra info above and better warnings to the cover which helps explain some things, sorry I didn’t do so earlier!
Appreciate the reassurance. I’m going to go ahead and not check this story until after it’s finished and then maybe read it and decide if I’m still invested in this, and ask myself if I’m willing to have dubious consent or personally disturbing content sprung up on me again in a story. I kind of doubt it- these past few pages have been extremely unenjoyable for me. A shame, because I have been eagerly checking updates to Tab’s works since Tom’s story in Khaos. But I lost a lot of trust and value my own peace of mind (and enjoyment- though I know I would have enjoyed this chapter more if I knew going in that things would end up actually okay- and I don’t know if I actually trust that this will end in a healthy way. I half expect a page of half assed “cutesy brat” remorse from James and the scene continuing, just with Butler not bottoming) more than being a loyal fan.
Completely understandable- I went back and realised the quick warning I posted up on the cover really didn’t cover what this story is about and I’m sorry it was misleading. I’ve added some extra info to the story above which helps explain things but you’re welcome to skip this story completely. The next one will start Wed 18th and is a nice holiday for all of them.
I really want someone to safeword. It would be powerful here and so needed.
This story is a bit more messy than that- I’ve added some extra info above to explain a bit what’s going on, but you’re right that it would be better for them to talk a bit more!
I’ve been following these comics for years now, and I agree with what everyone has been saying. This entire chapter has been very uncomfortable to read, and even now, when it’s sort of clear that James isn’t going to push Jefferson’s boundaries, I’m still concerned about how John feels about all of this (hell, Jefferson, for that matter). I’m sure it’ll get better, but they really, REALLY, need to sit down and talk before they continue.
Just to warn you there’s one more page of this scene left and then it’s them talking in the cool down. I’ve added some extra info to the story above which helps explain some things better, thank you so much for coming to me with your concerns.
While I can understand the reactions a lot of people are having, I think it’s important in this context to keep in mind some of the narrative privileges that we as the audience have over James. Although we know a lot of details about Arthur’s backstory regarding his history with other doms and his feeling that as a sub he had to be the receptive partner for downstairs penetrative sex despite not enjoying that role, James is mostly only aware that John found Arthur not playing it safe with one other guy and stepped in.
Going into that scene without that knowledge, James thought he was getting in-person negotiation, but there was actually very little exchange of information before the scene got started and definitely no mention of Arthur’s preferences regarding penetrative sex. James is in a situation where Arthur supposedly wants James and John to double-team him as equally dominant partners, but John doesn’t want to share the same level of dominance over Arthur with James, so James is now trying to please a partner to whom he is normally submissive as a dom while also dealing with the jealousy of his other partner over the role his first partner to play.
So, keeping all of that in mind, we see James talking to Arthur about penetrating him and John warning James not to. My interpretation is that James is intending to tease or entice Arthur and is also trying somewhat to egg on John’s jealousy. To us, the audience, it’s clear that John is trying to protect Arthur because of circumstances that James doesn’t know about, so James’s teasing is coming off more as a threat.
But! Last page ended with something of a cliffhanger of Arthur doing the ‘whatever you want’ sub-thing after James basically mirrors John’s previous dialogue in the scene where we find out that Arthur doesn’t like being penetrated. This page is James seeing what Arthur was doing and course-correcting for new information. Now, we could say that the right thing to to would be to pause the scene as John did and check in with Arthur, but we should keep in mind that James is not experienced as a dom, doesn’t have much experience with what happens when a scene starts going bad, and doesn’t actually have much power in this scene. We should also keep in mind that James is younger and much less experienced that John and Arthur and was also invited into their already established relationship, so he may even be feeling that he’s got to perform to a certain level for them to ‘keep’ him.
Given all that baggage, I think the scene’s doing remarkably well at not careening over the edge of the precipice that it started out on and given what we know about Tab’s love of communication and consent, I see this chapter’s scene being more of a conversation/communication enabler rather than ender.
/dissertation
Im glad for the reassurance, ill wait to comment on it so not to spoil but im glad its not as it seems
As far as I am concerned, there was nothing wrong with these pages. Kinky relationships when viewed from the outside might seem from weird to non consensual. However these are consenting adults who clearly communicate when issues come up in their play. Personally, I do not need to read the end pages to know that they will work everything out, as I have already read the previous stories; we know these people.
Plus, the comic is about power play, practiced by imperfect people. How a creator would tackle that and still keep page every page tension free, is beyond me. I understand deciding a work is not for you, but aren’t we guilting Tab for no reason here?
Yes! OMG, I’m so glad someone put this into words. I haven’t been able to figure out a good way of saying this so far, so have been keeping silent through all this, and even stopped reading the comments for a while because I couldn’t stand all the fuss. It was actually more traumatizing for me to read the comments than it was to read the comic! I understand people have strong opinions, but I was feeling uncomfortable and a little disgusted with things said. Thank you so much for putting this into intelligent words.
I dunno, most of the commenters with the strongest issues… myself included… have been kinky. In fact my longest relationship was like this one, in that rather than a safeword we relied …well, either saying no or, like Jefferson, otherwise communicating lack of consent.
We only had this go wrong once or twice, partly because my lover was super careful about listening when I said no, partly becaise he read me very well, and mostly because, unlike in this particular scene, we communicated extensively about wants and needs outside of scenes.
I think I understand what you are saying, but this is a story. If the story is about a scene going wrong, this is what it will picture. I would understand the fuss better if Tab had set out to create a manual for trauma-free kink, but this is not what Gay Butlers is about.
I realise there are sensitive issues for many people. But I am baffled as to what the readers who complained want: the comic is supposed to have drama and exploration and human weaknesses. Sure, this might make some people uncomfortable and they might decide not to read (is there ANY work of art suited to everyone after all?). But making the creator feel bad and overexplain their intentions every time someone acts less than perfect is honestly… strange to say the least.
Exactly. Every. Single. Page. For like, 4 pages? Five? Which is 2 weeks worth of story. Which might be why I stopped reading the comments. And it’s all the same sort of thing, and I just… I don’t understand, I don’t understand.
I actually agree, believe it or not. By mentioning discomfort I by NO means wanted to signal that Tab should stop, nor break character and/or setting by introducing safewords out of the blue. I don’t expect creators to safeguard their readers from all tension and discomfort! I just think there’s value in openly discussing aforesaid tension and discomfort. Even if I had decided I couldn’t finish this chapter, I wouldn’t blame Tab, nor swear his comics off forever. I just think the conversation… matters.
My problem was with the constant inundation of the same “comment” where people kept pushing for them to safeword out, or how this felt dub-con, or how stressed *they* were getting over every tiny thing. This is a comic put out a page at a time, and without knowing exactly what the end result will be, if you’re that stressed at every piece of drama, then perhaps you should be waiting to read it all in one go. Then to add on comment after comment about how Tab didn’t warn for this, and laying things hard on Tab’s doorstep, it was actually really frustrating for me. I understand that Tab might not have warned for each and every thing, but we’ve been reading all these stories right? We have a basic feel for these characters yes? They are humans, and they make human mistakes, and absolutely NOTHING about this particular comic felt out of character for these three.
We’ve read several stories about these boys, and some of it has been very stressful, as they learn and explore, and grow as people in a kinky threesome. Not everything goes right. I have learned not to expect anything completely smooth with them, but I also know that it will end with communication and understanding, BECAUSE it’s Tab, and because I *trust* the author! Regularly pushing for Tab to explain or to possibly change the comic, which I don’t know if anyone actually said but was a feeling I got when reading some of the comments, was really baffling and upsetting. I can’t imagine how Tab was feeling, it was bothering me and I didn’t write this.
I personally like the messiness of these relationships. I enjoy how they make mistakes and have to fix them. I like how they aren’t perfect, and how they don’t always pull from a scene to stop and communicate before moving on. I like how each character acts in particular ways true to their characters, because I am a flawed human and like to see flawed human reactions done in a way that feels real and loving to me. Some of the conversations these boys have had struck deep and meaningful cords with me because they’re mistakes I’ve gone through with my wife. I don’t want things to be “right” all the time, but I want the show of working through and communicating that happens after, BECAUSE that is super important and I need to see other representations of communication other than what a person normally see’s in media. Tab’s work is like… it’s personal to me. Deeply personal, and I don’t just consume it as a person who thinks this is cool, but as a person who finds themselves in many brushstrokes and thinks, “Oh. Look. I’m not actually alone. There are others who know what I’m feeling. That’s. Wow. That’s so awesome.” I’m 37 years old and in that whole time, I’ve only found a bare handful of people who have written things that speak on this same level.
Now, I understand that some people have triggers and I understand that there are things that bother them, and I’m not saying they’re wrong for feeling that way. I just don’t understand why there was such outcry on this particular story. I would think that at this point we’d know that things might (and probably will) go wrong, but in that same vein, we should also know that Tab won’t leave it hanging. He will delve right into the things that make it wrong and address the issue. He’s done it every time before, there is no reason to expect he won’t. So I suppose what I am actually frustrated with is the fact that the commenters didn’t seem to trust Tab, after all this time, and that was what was bothering me so much.
Okay, ahh, I forgot about the note. That makes the consent part clearer. This is really a sexy story, and I really like the teaching parts of this. I guess I got caught up because it felt so much more on-the-fly than it was. I felt like James wasn’t really being an attentive dominant caring for Jefferson, but that was Jefferson’s own wants.
Jefferson’s legs are so sexy, and I love any depiction of intercrural sex. Would it be possible ever for a NSFW e-book version of Sir, Butler and Boy with genitalia?
I’ve stayed silent in this because I understand that people have real issues with things like this, but Tab has always done well by us and listened to us when we’ve had issues with this. To make a mistake once and awhile is to be human and I have been really disappointed with how others have been treating Tab for creating content that touches on issues that not everyone is okay with.
Yes, I agree that perhaps there should have been a clearer content warning in the beginning, but Tab has a right to tell the story that they want to tell too, especially when we as readers know more than the characters do. Yes, dubious content is a problem, especially for people who have issues with it for their personal reasons, which are extremely valid! I don’t want to undermine anyone’s feelings here, but I hope that you can forgive another human being for making a mistake and upsetting you. You’re clearly here because you like Tab’s content. We know Tab is an understanding and empathetic creator and should be willing to forgive when they apologize and try to better themselves to make this a safe environment for all of us who enjoy exploring kinky situations with less-than-perfect characters.
Thank you to all who voiced concerns. You are strong and brave for voicing them, for others may not be that brave. I’m sorry that you were hurt or made uncomfortable by this content and hope that you’ll forgive Tab for a mistake with the warnings.
Tab, thank you for everything that you do. This is a free product that we partake in for free on the internet. You clearly do it because you have stories you wish to tell and people you wish to represent. I’ve been reading the comics for years at this point and this community has helped me learn things I never would have understood otherwise, both sexually and humanely, about treating people better and that there’s nothing wrong with feeling good/bad/other for various reasons.
I’m not sure if anyone will ever see this because I fully expect people to protect themselves if the content bothers them, but we’re human beings – we make mistakes and we can learn from it.
Thank you all for listening if you decided to read this. I wish you the best and hope you’re well.
Please excuse me if I used the wrong pronouns. I tend to use ‘they’ as a neutral ground but that may have been incorrect when referring to Mr. Tab. I did not think to check until after I commented so I hope you’ll forgive me if you prefer he/him.
I apologize if that was rude. It was not my intention.
I feel like this could’ve been solved easily if Jefferson seemed more enthusiastic about being of service somehow. His facial expressions do seem rather… idk… scared and surprised? Or even if more emphasis was put on his perspective or what the scene was doing for him (it is very focused on James and John right now and Jefferson being here at all seems almost inconsequential)
But then that just makes me think about how expressiveness can be a problem in real life… I am mostly non-verbal and stoically unexpressive in sub mode myself (partially why I tend to identify as a doll) and it is difficult to break out of that mindset even when asked, making it sometimes seem like I am not as enthusiastic as I actually am. I’ve had problem with this with doms who expect more obvious responses or who feel uncomfortable hurting me when they can’t easily read my reactions… For example, of course I am going to respond with things like “Do what you want with me” rather than “Yes I want this” because that is how my brain works when I am in subspace. It’s what I want to be when I’m in subspace. I can’t center my feelings on myself because that feels like a betrayal of what I am as a sub
I actually have this issue with my toy. It’s part of why I’m rather protective of her when other doms come into play. I’ve worked extensively on relying on the fact I trust her not to fall back into her compliance training and actually call but… paranoia is a hell of a thing. >.>
Tab, I just wanted to say – I appreciate your openness to criticism and that you took some direct action to address everyone’s concerns.
I hope this experience won’t cause you to shy away from telling these ‘messier’ stories – I’ve really enjoyed this chapter, as awkward / uncomfortable as it has been.
Sometimes kink, even good kink between people who care about each other, ends up going a little sideways, and I appreciate you sharing a story where people are maybe misreading each other a bit, or pushing the scene in odd directions, without it being a story of HORRIBLE CONSENT VIOLATION.
My partner and I had a scene go ~weird~ in a manner somewhat similar to this, where out of a desire to give the sub what they wanted the top went too far outside their comfort zone, and ended up calling the scene to an end. We were both kind of upset, but nobody had been aiming to hurt anybody else.
When we tried to talk about that experience with people in our local scene it was like they were incapable of understanding that there had been this problem without anyone acting as a cackling villain – that two people earnestly trying to get somewhere fun together had accidentally bungled into more unpleasant territory.
So I appreciate seeing a story that shows that awkward / not always perfectly negotiated / communicated part of kink.