Sir, Butler and Boy ~ Sins of the Father ~ Page 4
Okay.
So.
This is something I’ve had in my head a while, but have been in the fence about posting because I know it changes the dynamics of the relationship between these three. But in this time period it would be very uncommon for John not to have a wife- Jefferson barely gets off because being a valet is a full time position, and often servants had to leave once they married.
Sorry if this ruins the story for some people, but this is just how it was for people of this persuasion. You did what you should publicly and made sure to hide what you were really doing carefully. Sodomy and indecent behaviour no longer carried a death penalty, but it did come with years of hard labour if you got caught.
Nothing is ruined for me.
I thoroughly understand the concept of marrying to be safe.
It was necessary for him to survive.
(the only thing i ask, is please do not let any of John’s self-beating spill over into actual cruelty. I realize that it is normal for that to happen when under great strain, but I have this image of John, upstanding, long suffering, and finding his way. I am proud of him… I would like to remain proud of him ;) )
just a little plea :)
Loving the story, and already ready for the next page installment :) (or ten pages… ^,^ )
Not ruined for me at all.
(Though until it’s established otherwise I’m going to assume he’s married to one of the women in the sister series to this one.)
My headcanon as well.
That was literally my first thought.
Aw, James. Poor James.
1- People contain multitudes, don’t do this to yourself! It’s one day a week!
2- Ehhhh to that thing when polyam folks grumble about their partner’s kids coming before their other partners. Friend, buddy, mate, pal. You’re mature enough to understand that people can contain multitudes; a child is not, and needs their parent.
As I’ve said: OOOOOHHH SNAAAP
It makes sense, but it also breaks my heart. For our three protagonists, for the wife and kids… no one can be really happy in this situation.
Doesn’t ruin anything. John’s bi, has a vanilla wife and two kinky boyfriends. Could happen today, too.
Is it okay to slap the bisexual label on him, though? I don’t like that idea because to me it enforces the stereotype that bisexual people can’t stick to one person/gender. It would make much more sense if he were gay but hiding the fact by marrying a wife, since gay men can most definitely marry and have sex with women. Him being bisexual would kind of ruin the story for me, because that would make him a cheater rather than a man with no choice.
I’m not offended by that but I do get annoyed by a lot of people assuming we are just confused about our sexual preferences or are simply in the closet and use “bi” as a label to soften our “gayness” with. But really? Regardless of whether John is gay or bi, he *is* in the closet. Not much choice in that time period.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say. “bi” isn’t “gay light”.
Is it okay to slap the gay label on him, though?
Also who says he’s cheating, maybe his wife knows and is okay with it.
And a lot of us bi/pan people can’t or don’t want to stick to one gender or one person. Polyamory is a thing and there is nothing wrong with it.
Lots of kinky people with a vanilla primary partner date/have sex with/play with other people with permission of the vanilla partner.
Even though this is fiction, I’d find the idea of John having a wife who is okay with something so taboo (for its time) to be such a cop out. Context clues within the work itself seem to indicate that John’s wife has absolutely no idea, reflected by the two men’s feelings about the matter and the fact that the wife is not openly spoken about.
Yes, polyamory is a thing, but we can’t just throw historical context out the window. I don’t think that’s what happening here at all.
We get plenty of narratives about bisexuals who don’t stick with one gender. That’s common, and gives people the idea that bi/pan people are unfaithful by nature. I’m not going on a respectability politics tirade, but people need to stop thinking that bi/pan people can’t be monogamous, and that people can’t be gay just because they have sex with opposite sex.
okay yes, I understand that bi/pan people can be be monogamous, but they can be polyamorous too. From here it looks like you are arguing that it is inherently offensive to be a bi person that is poly.
Not at all! I guess why I’m saying is, unless it’s proven that John’s wife knows, this is cheating in my mind and not polyamory, which to me anyway, means that all parties concerned are aware of what’s going on. A lot of biphobia stems from this idea that bi/pan people are serial cheaters, and it shows as a lot of people assume someone is bisexual rather than using someone as a beard. I just don’t like that assumption. I’m fine with morally grey scenarios, but I think at the very least it’s problematic to assume bisexuality.
Frankly the Victorian era predates the establishment of orientations as identity so the whole is he gay/is he bi argument is entirely irrelevant.
…he could still be cheating on his wife if he was a man with no choice? It’d just be more “tragic” because he isn’t enjoying the sex with his wife. That’s a problematic part of how bisexuals are represented.
I’m not condemning him for cheating, it just brings a shade of grey to his character that was not there before. The best case for the time would be either he’s bi and it’s been cleared with his wife, or his wife’s also gay and they’re in a mutual beard relationship together.
True, it would be cheating regardless, but given the time period and the risk involved I would put it past him. What’s the problematic portrayal of how bisexuals are represented? I’m not sure I caught it in your statement. Disregarding the fear of stereotypes, if he were bisexual and not enjoying sex with his wife I wouldn’t find that tragic whatsoever, really. Like, sorry it sucks for you, but that’s no reason to cheat. If you can only emotionally and physically connect with one gender on a romantic level and it’s outlawed or basically a death sentence, that’s a different story, imho.
Yeah sorry, I didn’t make it clear. A problematic portrayal with bisexuals is that they’re incapable of being monogamous because they want to have sex with both. You always see depictions of bi’s (is that the appropriate punctuation for that?) where if they’re in a gay relationship they cheat for the hetero sex, and if they’re in a hetero relationship, they cheat to get the gay sex.
Either way, there’s a heavy implication that bisexuals are significantly less monogamous/faithful than either gay or straight people.
okay yes, I understand that bi/pan people can be be monogamous, but they can be polyamorous too. From here it looks like you are arguing that it is inherently offensive to be a bi person that is poly. You are arguing that being poly is wrong and cheating.
That is absolutely not what I’m saying. If it’s an arrangement between the husband and wife, it’s not cheating. The implication of the discussion is that the wife is unaware, whether the man’s gay or bi/pan. My point was it isn’t cheating -less- to be gay in this hypothetical, because the bi/pan man gets enjoyment out of sex with his wife, whereas the gay man does not.
…long run on sentence there, sorry.
ever heard of the concept of a beard? plenty of gay men married women to stay safe, and vise versa.
Oh he’s hiding his orientation alright, but we don’t know if he is gay or bi or if his relationship with his wife is genuine or not. For all we know, he is very happy in love with her and she may be aware of these guys and okay with it. She may also be into kink. Chances are it’s *not* that way, but there is no way to know quite yet.
i think it would be incredibly lame and a disservice to Tab’s storytelling to have a wife who’s totes kinky and cool with her husband’s gay affair in Victorian times.
you’re right. I usually assume the worst of stuff and guessed that since butler and boy weren’t happy with the set-up, she wasn’t. but maybe she knows about the whole thing and is fine. still, the fact that boy didn’t know what was happening makes me worry that his wife doesn’t either
Yes, of course I have heard of the concept of a beard :-P
Doesn’t ruin anything for me either. John seems like he has a great capacity for love, even if he’s having issues addressing things inside of himself. His life seems complicated. Even if he’s a fictional character, I’m not going to judge.
The beautiful textures continue!!! I am weeping right now. If I had just a tiny bit of Tab’s artistry, I could die happy.
As sad as this turn in the story feels, I think it actually adds to it. I like the realism and it just makes all 3 of the characters more dimensional. What I love most about this comic is that it has immense depth and isn’t just about sex. Sure, this side of John’s life complicates things for everyone, but real relationships are just as complicated and messy.
Also, first panel: James’ back. DAMN BOY!
and Second Panel!!! Jefferson’s hand reaching out! AGH! MY HEART!
Body language at its best!
Not ruined for me at all given so much thought has already been put into the history behind this story. It sadly still can be that way for people even now. Given the time leriod this story occurs, it seems next to being impossible *not* to have this background for the characters.
Nothing is ruined for me, either. …but the angst was angstier thAn i was ready for :(
I dunno if its just a natural evolution of the art style or Boy is getting older but he is…lookin’ foin (sad faces and wide shoulders¡!)
On page two I made a little rant. I don’t really want to call it a rant but I don’t have any other words for it in my repertoire. I was hoping to see a different deeper side to these characters and how each man handles it. I am glad to say that our dearest tab has delivered and in a much delighted way. It really never dawned on me that john would be married with children none the less. I should have guess though it being the time and all. I hope to see how James further reacts to this and the questions he has for john on his return. I can feel a sort of tension rising and if I were there would not want to be their when it does erupt. Though I am also hopeful that this doesn’t blow up. It instead calms down before it can reach its panicle. Alas I doubt that will happen for what is a good romp without a climax… forgive my euphemism. Only time will tell for now I lie in wait for the next page and the answers that will quell my burning questions but just as bring new questions to unleash the curious heat.
I wouldnt say ruined, I guess I wasnt anticipaiting the historical context to be more flushed out. I kind of like the idea it is flushed out, we get to see Jefferson and James talk over some hard things.
This does not ruin the story for me at all; this just got a whole lot more interesting and complex!
In fact, this would explain why John is so shocked when James confesses to him: http://www.discordcomics.com/comic/sir-butler-and-boy-stocks-and-bonds-page-10/
This current revelation makes that particular scene a lot more heartbreaking.