Shades After Page 106
You can tell it’s sad because I’ve gone back to drawing just hands. We’re in the final stretch now- 7 pages to go!
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This is not a good time for them to have this conversation and both of them need some therapy to deal with their self esteem issues in my opinion.
I know what it’s like. To be reduced down to a single aspect of yourself. To be stereotyped, misrepresented, and misunderstood. I know what it’s like to want a second chance, but to never receive it, even when are always giving second chances to others.
I know what it’s like to want to touch, and to be touched, but to almost never feel safe being touched.
I know what it’s like to be made to feel shame just for being born, because other people have it harder. To have your suffering minimized and dismissed.
I know what it’s like to want to be loved and accepted, even if you can’t love and accept yourself.
That’s why this is my favorite page so far. I can relate to all of the things being said right now.
I can also relate to all of the above. Therapy and self help books have saved my life and let me feel self worth for the first time in my life. Now I know that you are more than one thing, that needs and wants are ok to have, that you can’t compare pain, etc. I hope Chris and Anwar can learn this too.
Can you recommend any self help books that have particularly helped you? Maybe ones specifically for anxiety? I’ve been interested to read a good one some for quite a while, but the ones I’ve gotten my hands on feel patronizing and I’ve never been able to find a good book/audio book/outlet to help calm myself down with an ensuing anxiety attack.
There were videos I’ve watched, but I can’t say which ones. You can call or message me on Skype. I’m (agrayphantom).
I also discovered I’m an aerial acrobat. Performing in the circus arts has helped turn my life around.
Finally, I recommend looking up a woman named Samantha Hess. She’s really helped me a lot this past year.
But you were asking Fox, weren’t you? ^_^;
Here’s a list of books that have been very helpful to me, not all of them deal with anxiety directly, but as I also have anxiety, I did find them helpful for dealing with the root of the problem for me personally. Also, I was able to find all of the books at my local library, I only had to buy the CD, which is nice.
Take back your life: recovering from cults and abusive relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias
Maintaining recovery from eating disorders : avoiding relapse and recovering life
by Naomi Feigenbaum
The PTSD work book by Mary Beth Williams
This one is a CD my therapist recommended, I use the techniques in it all the time, especially the first one, which I use every day. Anxiety Relief by Martin L. Rossman M.D.
I hope that you find some of this helpful, I know how awful anxiety is and I hope you can get some relief from it.
Oh Chris… Anwar doesn’t see him as just his kinks; he just can’t see why Chris would need him after seeing the affection he gets from his domme.
This page is so utterly powerful.
Subdrop can be awful, especially stopping in the middle of a session. *cringes* poor Chris…
You’d think Anwar would have at least read about this??? Even if he hadn’t, isn’t it obvious that he shouldn’t bring up his own issues right now? God I can’t stand him. I wish Chris would find a more mature partner.
ANWAR YOU HUG THIS MAN RIGHT NOW! Ask him if it’s okay, hug him, do whatever. Ask the domme for help if you need it. I AM SO ANGRY WITH YOU -.- Poor Chris, that’s a heck of a mix of feelings all in rapid succession :(
Seriously, I think Chris would be better off without Anwar at this rate. It would be one less source of grief in his life.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s one thing when a person makes a mistake in a relationship and then learns from it, but Anwar’s impulse decisions (and general lack of maturity) seem to have done a LOT of damage. At this rate, their relationship seems to be doing more harm than good.
And a huge lack as well. War’s brought a lot of good into Chris’s life too and while it’s true he’s got a lot of growing up to do, there’s no reason they can’t do that together.
I agree ! Everyone blames Anwar for being imature and needs to grow up but how is he suppost to grow up and learn if he doesn’t go thru it? Relationships are tricky and hard and they are not one way they are both ways. *sigh* So give Anwar a brake with all his imaturity, mistakes and issues he is trying to understand Chris and wants to be with him.
Anwar should learn about relationships with someone who’s not so vulnerable and can actually enjoy teaching him.
I think it will all depend on how we see War handling this mistake he made in the next strip or two. They both have some changing to do. Chris still needs to heal, build confidence, and become more upfront about his expectations and needs. War needs to learn to think outside of his head (a problem that can people outgrow with age and experience). They both can become better partners to each other and more compatible with time and experience, but it really depends on the directions things take.
Hi there everyone, so what is this supposed mistake that Anwar made? He had an opportunity dropped into his lap and he wants to go find his boyfriend to discuss it. Note, he has been to the club before and wasn’t expecting to see his boyfriend in a scene, but notice how he isn’t judging, running away or blaming Chris. Why do you expect Anwar to react perfectly to situations that he has little frame of reference for? It’s called a learning curve for a reason!
Especially you Syn, I would absolutely love it if you would list Anwars “impulse” decisions and the damage they have caused. Seriously.
Well, since you insist!
Anwar had previously made it known to Chris that he wouldn’t be going to the club again, so showing up unexpectedly would be especially jarring to Chris (whether he was in the middle of a scene or not). Basically, Anwar set an expectation and then broke is word about it.
He KNEW that Chris would be at the club, and he knows that kink is important to Chris. Since the club only hosts fet-club night and isn’t a dedicated club for that sort of thing, what we’re seeing is Anwar interrupting Chris during something Chris may only get to do once-a-week or less. There is NO REASON Anwar couldn’t wait until the next day to have this conversation with Chris. I’m pretty sure the publishing company isn’t going to force Anwar to make his decision by midnight the night after he does the phone interview. He’s prioritizing his own desires over Chris’s needs, and that’s ridiculously selfish.
Now, in general… There has been no indication that Anwar has attempted to do his own research to further his understanding about Chris’s kink, how it affects Chris, etc. outside of jumping to conclusions and then having strained discussions about it. Non-participation is not an excuse for ignorance when it comes to a partner. There are plenty of things that my partners are into that I’m not, but I know what’s involved because I not only talk to them, but I have this really great thing called the internet so that I can dig around when they’re not available to talk. Since we KNOW that Anwar has access to the internet since he does his blogging, it’s PRETTY CLEAR that he has the resources and that he’s not using them.
Now, I’m not saying Chris isn’t at fault for part of the above point: he should have sat down with Anwar when they were both calm and capable of having that discussion… HOWEVER, it should NOT solely be Chris’s burden to educate Anwar.
Also, that whole bit about outing Chris on Facebook was pretty gross as there was no indication that Chris had consented to that. Even if it wouldn’t link to Chris’s profile until Chris accepted the change in status, the fact remains that his name was STILL DISPLAYED on Anwar’s, and that’s all anyone needs to look someone up and/or cause them trouble. Considering the fact that Chris’s employers would have considered that tie “too flamboyant”, I’m just betting that – if they’re capable of firing ‘at will’ – there’s a pretty good chance he could have lost his job over something like that. It’s a sweet gesture, but not a particularly well-thought-out one.
Also, and this is more minor than the other points, I’m STILL baffled as to why Anwar decided that “unexpected dinner with Chris’s kids” was a great time to bring up that his father was murdered. I understand that you can read it as a message that the girls should appreciate having Chris as their father, but jeeze… Way to BROADSIDE Chris with it. It seemed pretty tactless.
This should not be taken to mean I’m on “Team Chris”, though, unless “Team Chris” is really “Team Chris Should Get Some Therapy To Help Work Through His Insecurities Regarding His Previous Relationship”. Because it’s hardly healthy to expect that every bump and stagger in a relationship should lead to the same conclusions that his marriage did. And I understand where he’s coming from; I had to work through a lot of damage that previous partners inflicted before I could resume having healthy relationships again. But I also understand the desire to start a relationship even when you’re not ready to because you think it’ll make you ready.
What I’m seeing are two people who shouldn’t be in relationships with ANYONE until one of them gets some help and the other one is ready to put more effort into learning about their partner and said partner’s needs.
I mean…
Firstly, I think you’re being a bit harsh with the club thing. Yeah, Anwar showed up out of the blue. But at no point did Chris say that he would be uncomfortable with Anwar showing up there. They haven’t sat down and discussed it with Chris saying ‘Look, I’m worried you’d see things that would make you uncomfortable, so please don’t come here without warning’. In fact, on a normal evening I’m sure that Chris would have been very happy to see Anwar and have a talk with him – and I’d even speculate that on a normal evening, Anwar might have had a much more neutral reaction if he wasn’t already feeling relationship anxiety over the fact that he might have to leave Chris for a job. This point is rambling on a bit, but I feel like you’re looking at this from the viewpoint that Chris had expressed a desire for Anwar not to appear, whereas from what I see the only barrier to Anwar attending was Anwar himself.
Visa vi the Facebook thing, I think it was stated that names would not be named on either page unless both agreed. Also, consider that all of Chris’s friends we’ve seen so far are from the club, suggesting that this may be his primary social circle… It wouldn’t surprise me if he had more than one Facebook profile, or if he refused to accept friend requests from work. I think if this had actually unfavourably outed Chris without his permission, then it would have been tackled in-comic. Plus, if it was a rash decision that was going to get Chris in trouble, do you really think that JD would have been so relaxed about it? In general I just think you’ve come to a lot of assumptions on that front.
Regarding the dinner… I can kind of see your point? To me it was more that ‘War was just more comfortable with Chris, so he was willing to bring it up (Plus the kids were asking; he didn’t bring it up himself). It was a bit broadsidey, but that’s hardly something I’d look at and say the relationship was unhealthy.
Finally, I think it is really important to note that we aren’t seeing a lot of the in-the-middle fluff; there are clearly some pretty big timeskips going on in some of these parts. It can also be easy to skim over where each has been supportive of the other; in the end, their arguments are usually short, and very communicative. People give this couple a lot of shit, and I’m not really sure why… Maybe they’re used to Khaos Komix, where there was usually only ever one big conflict per couple?
Ya know, your comment about War’s prioritizing desires for needs brings up something pretty important to me. Something most successful polyamorous folk have to learn is how to prioritize conflicting needs/desires and when it’s okay to interrupt a partner with another significant other.
In this case, I don’t think War’s need had anything to do with the publishing company “demanding” an immediate answer. He was ambushed by his uncle, thrown through an emotional rollercoaster thinking his mother was plotting against him and Chris and is being offered his first real job that would require moving. Those are all pretty big things to deal with all at once and talking them out certainly could constitute as emotional needs. What’s more, while I doubt Chris is the sort who would get upset when he wasn’t reachable, for many people, they would want to know right away if there was a chance of their partner moving.
It’s clear that War and Chris haven’t really had this sort of discussion about when it is okay to interrupt and when it isn’t but I definitely know couples for whom Anwar’s needs here would be prioritized over Chris’s need for the scene and would be a justified reason to interrupt. Hell, in my own relationships, were one of my partners to be in just the job offer situation without all the family emotional baggage, I’d feel it appropriate for them to interrupt me on a date. Add to that the family mess and I would certainly understand them calling or showing up where I was because they needed me.
The important take-away is that it’s different for every couple and something that needs to be negotiated. One of the things I hear most in the poly communities is the need to communicate and how it’s lacking in most relationships. Most people make assumptions going in and that leads to conflicts like this. It seems to me though that this is a moment where they’re going to learn from this mistake and learn that this is another thing they need to discuss.
I might be reading this wrong, but I don’t think Anwar is judging Chris AT ALL. I genuinely think Anwar is thinking “why does he want me?…”, NOT “Oh man, I can’t, he’s gross.”
Poor Chris though. Hugs all around.
I feel the same way! This page hits me right in the feels :(
I’m starting to agree with this stance. Don’t get me wrong, this is fuck awful timing, but I can see why Anwar would feel insecure. I mean, Chris has said before how important kink is to him, so I suppose the natural conclusion upon War seeing aftercare would be “If he’s getting all his physical and emotional needs fulfilled, then why stick with me?” Especially considering the fact that War simply can’t fulfill his sexual needs and feels insecure about that.
But this is still just Anwar being selfish and belittling without realizing. If Chris is happy with only kink, he wouldn’t stay in their incredibly troubled relationship. It’s just a part of him, a big part, but not everything. ‘War just sounds like he has no faith in his boyfriend as well as himself, and if he would just give them both some credit, this could be worked through, but no, he had to go straight for the kill button. Well, good, maybe Chris can find someone who isn’t a self-sabatouging child.
100% this! As a lifelong polyamorous person, I’ve gotten this sentiment all the time. All too often, mono-minded people who’ve given poly a go with me have ended up coming to this same point. If I’m getting love and sex and all that from someone else, why would I want to be with them at all. It’s a hard point to get past for mono-poly ships.
But it’s a discussion that needs to be had! Honestly, I don’t think you are using “selfish” in the correct way. Who thinks 100% clearly when faced with a situation like this for the first time?
There, subdrop, should have called it. Honnestly I’m so angry at Anwar rn, I know he didn’t realise what he was doing and he doesn’t want to hurt Chris but there’s a reason aftercare is so important and it’s EXACTLY to avoid the hell that is subdrop, especially on a low self-confidence.
I’m sorry, but what does subdrop mean? I’m new to this whole BDSM scenerio (and I haven’t even read 50 Sahdes of Grey either! Which is most likelly a good thing. That book just sounds so…… AWFUL).
Substitute drop is where a person experiences a rapid drop in endorphins that results in feelings like being hung over or depressed. Also, contrary to the name, Dom/Domme’s experience this endorphin crash as well.
I’ve also heard that referred to as Dom Drop. At least in the scene. >.>
Imo (as a switch) dom drop and sub drop can have extremely different causes. And Dom drop doesn’t necessarily need have that same high or endorphin rush feeling during the scene. (Experienced Dom Drop very recently)
As a person who occasionally switches, I’ve found the two to be the same for me, but I’m sure different people experience them differently.
Sub drop is basically your body trying to correct itself after a scene. A good scene will cause an endorphin rush akin to being high or drunk. (Many tops will not consent to sex with a sub in sub space because of this unless it was prenegotiated) After being in that space or if you are ripped out of it suddenly (such as what happened to Chris here) your body will try to correct itself and you can experience things such as depression and anxiety. It’s why aftercare for the next few days can be so important. Because without that love and affection sub drop is difficult to deal with.
I just want to grab both of them and hug them. This whole situation is playing on the insecurities they have in their relationship, more so on Chris’ self-esteem than anything else though :(
Scampers off to Google “subdrop.”
Feels like both of them should have communicated way more before this went down—so it didn’t go down. War is very new to the whole scene, but Chris is very new to this kind of relationship and seems to still have a lot of healing he needs to go through before being in a relationship with someone like Anwar (not just talking about this scene but how he behaved during the bath scene). Seems like they’d both be better off with people who’s sexuality is more in line with theirs at this moment in time (not necessarily forever though).
https://tiedupready.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/what-is-sub-drop/
Oooooooh… I get endorphin crashes after running intense races. I have to find something to distract myself and keep myself safely active (you aren’t supposed to run after a race) or I get really wiped depressed the next day. I can only imagine how very vulnerable and emotional it can make one after an intense session like what Chris went through. This is realy a defining moment for these two depending on what road War takes. Hope he gets out of his head for a moment and gives/gets Chris help ASAP.
Anwar, just promise him that this isn’t the end, and you’ll talk when he’s ready, then VACATE THE PREMISES.
I don’t think Anwar is intending to be cruel here. He’s not a very sexual person and it took a lot for him to accept Chris’s love of kink. Are they good for each other? That remains to be seen. I’m speaking from a place of someone who’s asexual. Accepting someone’s sexuality takes time and emotional growth. Anwar needs to do more before he stay with someone like Chris.
DAGNAMMIT HUG ALREADY!
I have to say, I’m severely disappointed and almost ashamed of the comments sections the last two pages. The number of people vilifying Anwar for showing up or not understanding is just mind boggling to me. He hasn’t said a single bad thing since showing up, and at best, he’s just been confused about why Chris would want to be with him when he has what appears to be an emotional connection to someone else as well. For him, it looks like Chris has *everything* with his Domme, whereas all he gets with him is the emotional aspect, and why split yourself when everything (seemingly) can be had in one package? He’s asking a legitimate question.
I’ll be honest, the comments on the last page infuriated me to the point I nearly stopped reading the comic all together, and apparently at this point I’m going to have to stop reading at the bottom of the comic page from now on. Raging about dom-drop which not every top goes through, or the aftercare that is needed before this talk, which sometimes happens either by choice (because not everybody wants it with another person) or necessity of the situation. At one point, I actually enjoyed reading the comments because they provoked discussion, but this is not a discussion anymore. The only reason I’m coming back now is because I’ve invested too much time in the story to not see the ending when it’s so close, or else these comments honestly would have driven me away completely.
You have every right to feel that way. Personally, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and strong opinions are a big part of what stimulates discussion. Also, I think this reaction, while valid, is unfair to the comments section. In my opinion, no one person gets to decide how others can feel about a story, its characters, etc, and while I don’t think it’s intentional, this comes across as telling others how to feel or respond and also comes across as condemning and judgemental. You do you, but don’t forget to let other people be themselves too.
Just avoid the comments section, I understand what you mean, it truly disturbs me when I see commenters raging at Anwar for not having the “perfect” reaction every single time something new/unexpected comes up. Honestly, if you wanna project a fantasy perfect lover onto a character you are reading the wrong comic. Tab has a reputation for showcasing the human foibles we all have. Including not being omniscient and walking in on an unexpected scene. Honestly.
I think we all have the right to feel how we feel about the characters and the story and I honestly don’t understand why anyone cares what other people think about the characters. In what way does it affect you for someone to dislike the actions or flaws of a fictional character?
Keep in mind a lot of us connect and even identify with anwar. Sure he didn’t react perfectly but there are some comments on here that do feel like a attack at some very human flaws actual people share with Anwar. I’m not saying you can’t voice them but i do get where coffee is coming from.
some people are going “YOU SHOULDN”T BE ABLE TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP IF YOU ARE IMMATURE!” When there foregeting were worthy of love and respect and screwing up a few times dosen’t mean we don’t try. A lot of people assumend anwar hasn’t done research. Who says he hasn’t? we don’t follow anwar around 24/7. Know peoples needs isn’t magically understood even if you do research. Theory (reading) and practice (seeing/observing) are two different things. Whats apprent to someone isnt apperent to someone else and understanding needs can be difficult for a lot of people in real life not just anwar.
Both need to improve and I applaud the comments that have higlighed that. But many have been overly agressive – even though that is a human reaction to people not doing what is ideal or understandable to them. sometimes saing a flaw in a character is carp is saying to someone who shares those vunerablitys that YOU are carp and a idiot.
That’s something I personally cannot understand. I don’t relate to characters in that way, I don’t take attacks on them personally no matter how I might relate to them. I personally enjoy having my failings pointed out to me through fiction because then I can work to become a better person. If someone attacked me personally I would be upset, but someone attacking a fictional character doesn’t affect me. As for whether Anwar has done research we have no evidence directly that he has or hasn’t done research, but I think people are reading his reactions to aspects of bdsm as coming from ignorance and thus reasoning that he hasn’t researched. I do agree everyone deserves love, but I don’t think anyone is entitled to being in a relationship. A relationship is between two or more people and it’s not a right, it’s in my opinion, a privilege you earn by treating others well and working for the benefit of yourself, the others involved, and the relationship itself. If you can’t do anything one of those things for whatever reason, the other person/people have the right to move on. Anyone has the right to end a relationship for any reason at any time. Sometimes people need to fail to learn and grow. Neither of them is perfect, I think for many people though, Anwar’s actions read as harmful in a way that Chris’s don’t. It’s all a matter of opinion and there’s no such thing as a wrong opinion, only different ones.
Fox, I sincerely wish there was a way to “like” or “favorite” comments on these pages, because if there was, I’d do it in a heartbeat for this one. You’ve hit so many nails on the head.
Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say :-).
I agree that no one is entitled to a relationship. If anwar and chris can’t come an agreement then it is best that one of them breaks it off. If someone isn’t happy then let it end.
I know a lot of Anwar’s haters do have decent points. He does repeatedly act first and think second. Personally I’m not angery or anything but I do think there’s a difference between starting a conversation with nuanced points and going straight for a emotionally filed rage attack on others ideas.
I agree that coming at the discussion from an emotional place, isn’t always best, but I think that the commenters should be given the same understanding that you are asking them to give Anwar. They are flawed humans too and not bad people for reacting emotionally.
I know what you mean. I’m not angry with the commenters. Just saying to try to be mindful if how you say things.
Also I know you don’t get annoyed when people point out flaws in fictional characters. However some anti-anwar people have been saying he shouldn’t be in a relationship. Ummm last I checked it’s up to the two people IN the relationship if they want to be together or not. Just because someone is annoying to you doesn’t mean Chris doesn’t or isn’t happy. As others pointed out there have been huge time jumps and Anwar does try. He got a tie for Chris, he did specific actions when he knew he screwed up. Does he screw up? Yea but so has Chris plenty of times.
I could argue chris should have warned anwar about lashes, he should have talked to him about post-sub care, he should have initiated closer guides about what to do while he’s at the club and anwar needs to reach him. (To me it seems silly to expect that a emergency/emotional need won’t happen durring your time at The club because needing extra support from your partner due to chrisis can happen at ANY time.) most of the issues between these two happen because they both aren’t perfect. But if they want to stay together and both know when to call it quits for themselves then you can’t say they need to break up because this sort of thing wouldn’t work out for you.
Personally, I get where you are coming from and it’s valid, not everyone feels that way though. When it comes down to it, these aren’t real people and people in my experience respond differently to fictional characters than real people in that they often judge their actions more harshly. Also, my honest opinion is that regardless of the time skips neither Chris nor Anwar seems happy because they are both seemingly incapable of being happy with and loving themselves at this time and it’s hard to really love and be happy with someone else when you can’t love and be happy with yourself.
@Zathura I also forgot to mention, that I find it very interesting that you are asking people to give Anwar compassion for being imperfect and emotionally reactive, but you are unwilling to extend the same courtesy to the commenters for being imperfect, emotionally reactive people. Perhaps, before you ask others to judge less you should stop passing judgment on them.
How very sanctimonious of you. Reread my post, I am not judging anyone, I am expressing my feelings on people’s reactions.
I am honestly baffled and disturbed with the vitriol that some commenters were aiming at Anwar when I can see no basis of it in story. Attributing malicious intent to Anwars actions when it is clear that his motivations are entirely different. People commenting like he knew Chris was in a scene and he went in to interrupt it and how dare he go to the club, how thoughtless, how immature, how unbelievable that he is not omniscient and didn’t just know not to go there. Or didn’t just know how to react. Or didn’t just know to say the right thing.
It’s aggravating. What’s even more aggravating is that you are essentially defending people right to say how they feel and telling me to shut up. By quoting the bible at me. Classic.
Firstly, I’m a pagan I don’t even read the bible let alone quote it. Secondly, I never told you to shut up I said you might want to be less judgemental of the commenters while you ask them not to judge Anwar. Thirdly, I felt your original post was judgemental because you seemed to be saying that people must be looking for a “fantasy lover” character if they don’t like what Anwar is doing. Also, the “honestly” at the end comes across as condemning.
Okay inadvertent quoting of the bible noted.
Maybe we are having a case of cross cultural confusion here but “honestly” is not an expression of condemnation so much as an emphatic exasperation. About 6 steps below “For fucks sake” which is condemning and “really!” which is exasperated. And perhaps the intentional purpose of your message was not “be quiet” but the subtext of your message was “shut up”. The fact that I express my feelings about other peoples feelings doesn’t mean I am condemning or intolerant of said feelings.
I still stand by my “fantasy lover” outlook because it is legitimate. Dragging a character through the mud because they do not act perfectly all the time in fiction is aggravating to me. If that is judgmental then okay I am judgmental. Consider thyselves judged.
I wish there was a color code to convey tone on the internet… If so this message would be a mix of pink for annoyed, yellow for joking and green for earnest.
I think perhaps it is cultural because where I come from “honestly” is just a more polite version of “could you be more stupid”. I apologize if my comment comes across that way to you, I assure you that I never once thought you should shut up, I thought you should be more direct in stating your feelings without placing a value on the behavior and feelings of others. An example would be, ” I feel very frustrated with some of the comments here because they come across as so harsh and cruel.” I was asking you to consider the real people behind the comments and give them the same understanding you want for Anwar. Basically, stating how you feel is fine with me, I just wanted you to know that to me at least you came across more as condemning others for how they feel than stating what you feel. Again, this could very well be cultural. I agree you have the right to feel that that’s what people are doing, but I think it’s unfair to say they are because you don’t know them personally and, unless you are omniscient, can’t know why they don’t like Anwar or what they want from him. I appreciate you discussing this with me and I would like to say that I appreciate the tone of this message. To be honest, I felt the one before where you called me sanctimonious was attacking me personally as opposed to my views. You can attack my views all you want, but please refrain from making it personal because you don’t know me and it came across like I was being painted as a villain and an inaccurate one, for pointing out what appeared to me as a flaw in your presentation of your argument.
Hi, one of the Anwar witch hunters here. I really get what you’re saying, hell even I felt sometimes people are too quick to judge these very human characters. I’ve defended the characters more than condemned, so sorry for being harsh.
Some commenters have actually softened my heart a bit. I really understand that Anwar feels like a fifth wheel, and that’s something I can really relate to. But I still say he was too impulsive and needy, explicitly ignoring his friend’s warning and invading Chris’ space without any understanding of what that could do. This is neither the time nor place for ignorance on his part. He should have known better, but ignored all reason and caused all this grief. Again.
That’s why I’m so frustrated at him, and why others are too. It’s hard not to be mad at someone who just get others caught in the crossfires of their emotions, especially when it was so preventable.
But you have a right to have your own opinions, and I respect that. I’m sorry if I got caught up in the hunt, but I really don’t think it’s so terrible to argue your points or vent. It’s not like you have to agree with me, and being allowed to voice a dissenting opinion IS a discussion. It certainly shouldn’t prevent you from reading the comic, it’s not Tab’s fault.
Honestly I doubt that all the people pissed at Anwar are as perfect in relationships as their standards for him. -shrug-
I may just be the unpopular opinion here, but I think Anwar is acting kind of mature here. Not going in would have been more so, but this is better than I expected it to go.
Now back to the popular opinion, HUG ALREADY!
The mature thing to say would have been “Don’t worry, we can discuss this another time. Are you ok?”
I kind of agree with that, but that’s not what I’m trying to say. It’s just I expected Anwar to respond differently, and what I got was more mature than what I expected.
It seems both of them need reassurance in their own-selves. Chris is emotionally breaking down from remembering his wife, and Anwar feels as though he may not be enough for Chris…
It’s hard because they need to communicate clearly of what each other wants, but they’re also not in a good spot to do so :(
^ this
I would like to add to the bandwagon of FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK, HUG
Storyline aside, the description of what submition is/looks like was spot on
‘affectionate’ varys but the ‘you forgot about everything, just you and her’ is just spot on. I switch and thats so true for both parties and is such an intence and amazing feeling. it can be overwhelming for some people watching it for the first time
Thanks for the accurate portrayal the Tab, much appreciated :)
Echo this! And also a nice depiction of sub drop, which is something people should learn about.
I never knew about sub-drop I’m not kinckster but thats part of why i love theis comic. I not only learn new concepts but I understand concepts from seeing situations played out in the comic rather than just hearing “Oh that’s a thin???”
I don’t usually comment here (love the story btw) and I know this is sad and all, but I’m just here to point out that Anwar looks amazing in the first panel
A lot of people are coming in here and telling Anwar, what the fuck are you doing, get out of there – respect Chris’s needs! I feel like this is a little harsh, because… Well, I think people are forgetting that in this situation Anwar has needs too. He has the need to feel secure in his relationships, because when you’re ace, you sit and listen to people constantly going on about wanting relationships because they miss sex, or how a relationship is incomplete without sex, or how withholding sex from someone is a form of punishing them for doing something you don’t like, or etc. etc. etc. – it’s a literal bombardment of ‘If your relationship isn’t sexual then you are hurting your partner and not giving them everything they need’. Some ace people even get asked if they are capable of feeling love – that’s how caught-up society is in the idea of relationships being built on a foundation of sex.
Now, Anwar has finally found someone who is completely willing to just have a romantic relationship. He’s delighted, but he also needs a lot of reassurance that Chris ISN’T just going along with it and that he ISN’T depriving Chris of some valuable resource. He needs reassurance that their relationship is real, and that it counts even if they aren’t sleeping with each other. And let’s not forget that right now Anwar is facing a stressful point: he’s got a job offer, which might mean moving and separation from Chris, which might mean having to end the relationship.
So… Does that mean that his needs come above Chris’s? No – absolutely not! Chris has his own needs which I could list, plus this situation-specific need of being in subdrop. But a lot of these posters talk at great length about Chris’s needs, and in many ways I feel like people might not appreciate quite how much Anwar needs himself. And I don’t think he’s being selfish in this interaction; he’s not asking Chris to defend himself, or attacking him for being involved in kink or anything else like that. Literally all he’s said is, ‘I understand you do the things you do and I am not angry with you for it, I’m just confused why you need me’. And yeah, Chris is in a bad space because Subdrop, but… That doesn’t mean that Anwar is necessarily in a wonderful shiny place himself. I just. I don’t know. I feel like people are too quick to call Anwar selfish, and I find that an unfair assessment of his character.
I agree with you a bit on this. I think people are also forgetting that Anwar is likely much less experienced with relationships than Chris is in general. He just got out of college, right? He’s pretty young, so it makes sense for him to fuck up more often. But he’s also progressed to communicating much more, whereas he used to keep EVERYTHING bottled up in an attempt to be some sort of perfect partner, I think. They both need to learn WHEN to do these feelings things, I think, but they’re still actually trying to communicate and be honest with each other, which I think is a sign of growth.
While Anwar is kind of screwing up here a bit, I think this is a marked improvement from his earlier little-to-no-communication-at-all. This is poorly timed communication, yes, but I think it does show that he’s putting in the effort to learn and get better at this. Learning to communicate in a relationship can be difficult for a lot of people. And it seems that Chris maybe also didn’t talk to Anwar enough about this, possibly thinking he didn’t need to? I think Anwar has overall erred more than Chris, but Chris has not been flawless either and has occasionally treated Anwar’s worries or concerns as annoying instead of something he could listen to. But I think they’re both growing as people and are unfortunately fucking up a little bit. But they both clearly care about each other and are trying to understand each other, which I think is very different than being selfish.
And another thing, actually: there aren’t very many scripts for how to have a relationship structured like theirs is. How many pieces of media depict an asexual man dating a man who like to wear feminine clothing when he’s dominated sexually by a woman? Probably none??? It’s not like they have examples to follow on how to go about this. People are starting to make those resources, yes, but it’s not like they have common social models to work off of the way a heterosexual, heteroromantic, monogamous, cis couple does. So they’re also fumbling to find out how to have this relationship that’s very new to them and it’s possible NEITHER of them have researched it much yet and thus have no good idea how to go about this.
Oh Chris, Anwar make it betta
This comment section is so frustrating as an ace. After Khaos ended and Tab mentioned that his next comic was going to be about an ace person I was excited because yay, representation! An ace character who is the MAIN character!!!!! Created by a comic artist with a good track record of portraying queer characters who are human and relatable. Hell, Tab even asked his ace followers to contact him to help him research asexuality so he could portray it with some accuracy.
This was so exciting and so promising. There really aren’t that many canon ace characters out there, let alone one who is the main character in a story that directly speaks to their experience with asexuality. And I really think this story has been interesting and worthwhile. But fucking hell. This comment section seems to have it out for Anwar more often than not and it’s slightly frightening.
To some of you this is all just a story and you don’t personally relate to the characters so why take it so personally? But to me, an ace, it’s sad that one of the few stories starring an ace character PERIOD is one where the ace character is apparently people’s least favorite out of the main cast. It’s a story where he’s so frequently unsympathetic that I was honestly apathetic towards the prospect of the story being discontinued if the kickstarter didn’t go as planned.
This is some people’s introduction to asexuality and I have to wonder if it’s a positive one. I’m not mad at Tab for writing this story because I know it was done in good faith and I know that he likes to write complicated stories with lots of drama and ambiguity. I’m just disappointed that people don’t seem to understand the implication of Anwar apparently being so hatable by the non-ace readers.
Are you trying to understand the ace perspective? Do you care? Is this GOOD representation that gives non-ace people a good idea of what it means to be ace? I don’t know and I should probably just not read this comment section anymore ever again. Peace.
See, I was expecting people to react very differently when writing this scene. ‘Don’t leave me like she did’ is classic emotional manipulation from Chris, and yet people are still going on at Anwar for being immature.
The story in its entirety is definitely a good one, it’s just not meant to be ripped apart page by page like this. I may have to look into how I post things up in the future because this is getting a bit silly.
Tbh Tab, even if you post a story in its entirety, people are going to get emotionally charged while reading it and upset with how certain plot points are handled. Just look at how bent out of shape people get within just about any fandom (seriously, take a stroll through Tumblr and you’ll find people losing it over everything from the Avengers to Steven Universe to Supernatural to Doctor Who.) It’s just part of having a fandom. But hey, there are some good sides too. You have so many people reading and loving your work. I would be willing to bet the bulk of them either never comment at all, much less get super charged in the comment section. It’s all just a sign that you’re a pretty big deal now. <3
thank you thank you Tab for bringing that up, though I didn’t quite latch on to that nearly as much as “I wanted you to be different”(ouch). The comments do seem to have been very one-sided lately, but neither character is perfect, and they’re not supposed to be.
I personally read Chris as apologizing for being manipulative when he said, it was the subject drop taking. Perhaps others are reading it that way as well and that’s why so many people are responding this way. Also, I’ve never known people not to respond to stories this way, everyone reads a story from an individual perspective and so everyone will have a different take on it. In my experience people do this with stories even if they have the whole thing in front of them.
I’m not posting very often, because, as been mentioned upthread, the comment section gets discouraging at times, with all the Anwar-bashing. To err is so very human, but to stick around, figuring out together what works, what doesn’t work, what is asshole behaviour, done in a slightly irreverent British tone, is not a bad thing! It is wonderful. There are so many web comics with the token minority representatives in, and mature, wellread teenagers throwing correct phrases at each other, which is, maybe, admirable. But it isn’t real. This is so believable, I love both Anwar and Chris so much and I totally trust Tab to navigate the story through these troubled areas. And whatever will I do after those 7 pages are over?
i agree with just sayin. if people are getting emotionally charged it means people got invested into the story. Personally as a ace i love shades of A and shades after. I contributed to you kickstarter (back when i had funds to :P)
The story isn’t wrong. Its just two different crowds clashing because you write so well you drew us both in ;)
One of the downsides to presenting real characters with flaws and everything (especially young characters) is that some people are always going to latch onto those flaws and hate them for it. Personally, I’ve found War’s story to be a very good representation of what it can mean to be ace AND very young. With Khaos Komix it was so clear that we were dealing with kids that I think some people were more forgiving (although I do remember a few times when their youth didn’t protect them from the fury of the comments section) but here, especially because War is in a relationship with a much older man, it’s a lot easier to forget that he is still very young and inexperienced. People see him with an experienced adult and expect him to behave like an experienced adult instead of someone who, were I to know in real life, I’d think of as a kid still. (I usually refer to most people up through their early twenties as “kids” in that respect.)
All that having been said, like I mentioned to Tab, most the people reading this probably never comment at all, so odds are, most of them aren’t having the same visceral reactions against either character. I still wholeheartedly believe that every comic Tab’s done (this one included) has done wonders for representation.
Personally, my issue is the idea that at Anwar’s age someone would not be acting like a grown-up. Legally, he’s been one for quite some time and he’s the same age as I am. Where I come from you’re expected to be a grown-up, having kids and buying a house. Also, I guess to me, it feels like people my age are often internalized and treated like children, when we are legally adults with adult consequences. I think by the time you are graduating college, you should no longer be acting immature and people shouldn’t be excusing you if you do. The law will treat you as a competent adult capable of understanding the consequences of your actions and I feel people should do the same. Also, I know myself and many others my age extremely dislike being seen as a “kid” exactly because legally we aren’t. Honestly, I feel like we need to start expecting legal adults to act like grown ups because if they break the law they will be treated as one.
Infantalized not internalized
Fox, when we’re discussing legal issues, I couldn’t agree more but when we discussing certain complex social issues, I’m afraid not. Around here, there’s a certain paradox that most people face when they go to find their first job. Just about everyone hiring expects you to have experience but very few are willing to let people get that experience. I’ve found that all too often people treat young adults in the same way. If you expect someone fresh out of high school or college (it’s going to vary person by person) who’s never been in a relationship or had that sort of experience to not only know exactly how to behave but also to do so is unreasonable, those dealing with such strong emotionally charged situations to handle them right right off the bat.
Something else worth pointing out, despite being legally adults, from a strictly neurological standpoint, maturity isn’t reached til closer to 25. In addition to expecting people with no experience to behave as though they have it, we expect those without a fully developed prefrontal cortex to do so. Again, I’m not suggesting that people should be free from legal consequences or even that there shouldn’t be consequences to the sort of social mistakes being made here either. Just that we should be a little more understanding and less demanding of those who aren’t in a position yet to know just how to handle this.
Like I said though, I’m Anwar’s age , I have a marriage, a child, and am building a career and while I can agree that people my age don’t always make the best decisions, I don’t think maturity is about experience, I think it’s about empathy. I think the difference between mature people and immature people, and by this I mean people whose behavior is either mature or not, is whether they think about others and the consequences of their actions before they do things. I don’t believe this is a function of brain development, because I’ve met immature 50 year olds and mature 10 year olds. Also, personally, I strive to consider others as well as myself when I make decisions, I think before I act the majority of the time. I’m not perfect, no one is, but I think we need to expect more empathy and less selfishness from young adults. I don’t expect people to know how to do things they’ve never done, I expect them to think about the other person/people involved when they do them. I don’t think it’s fair to treat young adults the same as children because we are capable of being so much more than that and if people expect that of you within reasonable consideration for experience then most people I’ve ever met will rise to the occasion. Empathy, is largely learned behavior as is finding a balance between selfishness and selflessness and I think if we expected people to learn and taught them these things, we’d have a lot more mature people in the world. Basically, what I’m saying is that a fair bit of inexperience can be mitigated by empathy and a willingness to learn and not have to be right all the time.
While I would disagree that empathy is the sole or even primary determining factor in maturity, even if it were, a person can only be expected to be able to understand so far as they’ve experienced. For someone who has never known polyamory, for example – even if that knowing is simply seeing someone in successful polyamorous relationships proving it works – to see their partner getting what appear to be all of their needs fulfilled by someone else, it can be nigh impossible to empathize or understand why that person would want to stay with them. For someone with no real experience in BDSM and a partner who seems to avoid discussing it for fear of making him uncomfortable, it’s no surprise that War struggles to empathize or understand what is going on right now.
Agree to disagree then because I strongly disagree you need to experience something to have empathy.
As another ace person, yes, some of the comments can be frustrating because some of the things people get upset about are hard to avoid when ace. But I’m not upset about how Anwar has been portrayed at all.
But people seem to be missing that this is a comic, written to highlight issues- and further more, written as a response to ‘Fifty shades of grey’, so certain plot points need to be kept. Chris and Anwar potentially breaking up is one of them.
But these, over all, are CHARACTERS. Not people. Anwar as a character was written to raise more awareness about Asexuality, but was also written as a counterpart of Ana. He’s not meant to be perfect, or completely knowledgeable and aware. And his ace-ness is not part of his flaws.
Just like Chris was written to draw attention to BDSM culture and much more, he is also a character that was designed to have flaws, which again are not inherently connected to his kinks.
We’re not meant to think of them as the perfect characters. Or the perfect relationship. We’re not meant to think of them as being representatives for the whole of their sexuality/kinks. We’d proabably have better discussions if we stopped thinking of them as such, and defending a character simply because ‘this character represents me’.
When it comes to representation, it’s actually a topic that comes up a lot in media “Does the minority character have to be perfect and likable?” Because realistically, no. But due to those minorities having limited representations, it’s natural to want the few cases of them to be positive.
But that’s not the story here. And that’s how we should be treating it. Discussing things like “Oh, it’s interesting how Tab wrote this scenario” and “That developed rather realistically” or “I’m not sure that, given the character development, this would be how this unfurls.”
Not “I can’t stand that person and their intentional and thought out flaws!”
I think you bring up a fantastic point here (many, but one sticks out for me) of “minority” characters and media representation. I really like to see characters who are allowed to be human, and not elevated to some perfection paradigm just because they happen to be one way or another. Which when it does go down that way, maybe could be argued to be the flip side of [insert demographic here]-phobia? Like “I’m afraid of you but trying not to be, so I’m going to demonstrate how really totally cool I am with you by writing this totally perfect-in-all-ways character who looks like/is like you”? If I saw a character who looked like me (I’m a trans man who is also a POC, btw) who was like that I’d be like “Oh great, what this is subconsciously telling me is that I need to BE perfect in order to live”. Maybe not the intended effect. I’d be curious to hear what other folx think!
Thanks for the food for thought!
merryn said it in more ways than one. Really on of the things i like most is the flaws. I like anwar not because he’s ace but becasue he has flaws and understandable ones (to me). Just like everyone else.
Maybe this is just me, but I see this page as being more along the lines of a Classic Troubles With Polyamory moment rather than an issue of maturity or immaturity. As someone who has been non monogamous since forever but who still has a bunch of self esteem ish and trouble trusting people, this page is ace (PUN INTENDED) at throwing some light on the ever present “but if you get [whatever] out of another relationship, why be with me?” Which, for me, when I’ve brought that up with partners, I’m definitely wanting validation in a not so healthy way.
I dunno, I think Anwar’s doing just fine actually! Much better than I did when I was 18-19 for sure.
THIS tbh. Poly type relationships might not automatically click for some people, and they need to communicate and work it out. It’s not so much about maturity as it is learning to work with a different type of relationship.