Shades After 059
Thank you everyone for the comments on the last page- we had some very interesting discussions and most people were pretty respectful.
I should probably update the comment policy somewhere, here are my thoughts about how to keep the respectful atmosphere going:
I’d also appreciate less… glorifying violence in the comments. I appreciate that this sort of thing makes people mad but the sheer amount of it was pretty jarring to read. Feel free to comment elsewhere or take it to the forums, but there’s only so much graphic descriptions I can take.
Ugh, poor JD. Those kinds of encounters are awful.
The worst bit is they’re awfully common too. I have a genderfluid friend; I learned which pronoun to use based on their clothes (their choice to advertise that way) or stuck with plural (they’re not a fan of ‘ze’ etc).
But some people just canNOT get their head around the whole idea. They think my friend flips from ‘straight’ to ‘gay’.
I never say anything about my gender identity (transmasculine genderqueer and prefers they/them pronouns) to strangers for fear of getting this reaction or worse from them. I kind of just ignore the misgendering and don’t confront them. … I hope that’s normal/okay…
Also “bitch” on this page made me feel a punch in my gut as someone who is also faab and trans. But hey. That’s Mr. Dbag for you.
Hi Devon. having never run across the term “transmasculine” before and knowing that everything on the internet is true, could you clarify that term for me? What i got from the gender wiki (http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Transmasculine) is that is like a catch all term for anyone from about tom-boy to FTM. is that accurate, or is it more specifically a trans* term?
Of course the definition of any term varies depending on the person, but my definition of it is, a gender that is like ftm but not … “fully” male. A similar term is demiguy.
The best definition I can think of for transmasculine is anyone who falls somewhere in the trans spectrum whose identity (or main/primary identity) is decidedly more masculine than feminine (by the bearer’s personal identification of such identities). But your basic idea is right; a lot of tomboys/butcher women claim a transmasculine identity while still occupying a female social role, some people claim masculinity as sort of a home base while occasionally floating to other identities, and other folks (like myself) claim only a male identity, where “transmasculine” is more a description of the road traveled.
Devon – I’m in the same boat (transmasculine, FTM, but also genderqueer), and I often don’t, simply because I don’t want the situation to escalate and get even worse. I work in a couple of conservative fields (who knew that wanting to help others would land me in situations where being queer/trans isn’t openly allowed…) and perhaps that’s cowardly of me, I don’t know. But I think that being quietly myself, or yourself/oneself, can help people gently grasp different identities, even if you don’t always speak up. I hope others agree. And hugs to you, Devon (if hugs are ok).
Hehe hugs are absolutely okay. Hugs to you back, Kayden.
Even as someone with a little less complicated gender identity (just FTM, who would love to hear he/him) I take the same stance. It’s more stressful for me to correct strangers who misgender me (even now that I’ve got a good bit of facial hair and my voice has dropped a bit) than to confront them, so most the time I just bear it. *hugs*
Perfectly normal, I do the same thing. Easier not to enlighten them, and if they get closer to me personally, then I’ll enlighten them.
For starters, Mr. Dbag, JD didn’t ask you for a compliment. And what you were doing wasn’t complimentary. It was objectifying. So take your entitlement and shove it.
Maybe I’m weird in this regard, but I’d prefer compliments on what I can do, rather than how I look.
That’s actually a perfect way to describe what is an appropriate compliment and what usually isn’t. At least for me, so we’re both on the same boat in that regard c:
Me too, I hate compliments on my appearance, not because I’m super insecure or fishing or whatever else people think, I just legitimately don’t give one flying fuck about my appearance 95% of the time. I would much rather be complimented on being funny or smart or awesome. I even said in my OkCupid profile that I didn’t care so don’t bother complimenting me, and that made, like, zero difference. It’s like guys are conditioned to think girls should not only care about their appearance, but how others perceive their appearance, hence the rude “yo I was paying you a compliment you should thank me, bitch”. My favorite is when a guy calls you cute or pretty and you’re like “yeah I know” and then they’re like “no actually you’re not I was just trying to make you feel better don’t be conceited, bitch”
Ugh, and then guys wonder why girls won’t give them the time of day.
You get that with the gay guys too, I assure you. Even some gay people seem to think ‘gay’ is ‘pro-anal’ and that a good opening line is therefore ‘hey; cute ass!’
To which my response is usually something like ‘your ass is making noises. Please stop.’
I have mixed feelings about complimenting aesthetic values. If it’s things like a sincere ‘Nice hair/clothes/jewellery/makeup’ or so on, I’m happy to receive such compliments. That feels more like a compliment to my choice of style, and thus ‘me’, than a compliment to my body.
I also don’t mind compliments like ‘you’re pretty’ or random comments on physical aspects like legs or waists (I’m a cis-woman, for context), from friends. But that’s because I know we all understand that we can compliment each other and even jokingly flirt without their being any expectations of reciprocation.
Often I’ll blurt out random compliments like this to my friends as well. Just recently, while in a staring contest, I absent mindedly commented on how pretty their eyelashes are. (The resulting confused blink was a happy side effect >:D muhahaha).
But random strangers complimenting me for my sexual attractiveness? Hmm. I’ll try to be polite about it, because hey, it was intended well (hopefully), but if they react like ‘Mr. Douchebag’ and act like they’re owed something for being oh so generous as to pay you a compliment, then bleh- No. Wrong attitude entirely hypothetical flatterer.
I rarely ask for compliments. But sometimes it can cheer a person up to receive a random (nice) compliment. Hopefully something about their style, or personality, rather than something potentially sexual.
And I agree that he was objectifying. I think there is an important distinction between well intended sexual compliments and objectifying. Objectifying is when you take away somebodies autonomy. You strip them down to a thing that you use. By complimenting someone’s body, you’re not automatically objectifying them. However, if you expect/demand they react to the compliment in a certain way, thus taking their choice, then you are objectifying them.
Which, is what Mr Douchebag seems to be doing, so yes, he’s objectifying JD. Especially with ‘saying how exotic’ they are and how they should be grateful for the compliment. People shouldn’t have to owe anything for simple niceties.
Is it weird to give people compliments on how they look when you hate receiving them? Because I often compliment people on their clothing (when they’ve clearly made an effort) but I hate getting comments on my hair/clothes/appearance. I like buoying people up when they’re making an effort and when it seems like making that effort is something they do to feel good. But I hate the cultural assumption that I should want to, that I should be ‘pretty’ and make an effort to be decorative for other people. It kind of makes me wish I had the guts for facial scarification to be honest.
Tenner says he’s now going to go off and whine to someone about how he’s “such a nice guy” who “never gets a chance”…
I love those guys. Their lack of self awareness is almost magical
No awareness of what they say means anyway. The don’t stop and think. “Oh wait *that’s* how that is implying something negative … Sorry because I assumed it worked some other way” ppl like that – and yes, Let’s admit it more than just guys pull this card – the friendzoned complaint. Being rejected and it hurting is fine and you can be bummed about being shot down but for some reason people like to phrase those emotions as a “the world owes me” rant that’s insensitive at best to everyone else.
I take the “crazy bitch” as a compliment more than the sweet talking because I know that’s at least that’s an honest opinion. Also I actually work at being an obnoxious bitch, so, it’s nice to see my efforts recognized. You know what I don’t work at? Being seen as a walking talking sex toy.
I wouldn’t say, that having a trans* fetish is wrong in itself. Nobody asks for the fetish they’ve got. What counts is the way you handle your fetish.
Agreed. There is even a sexuality for those who are sexually attracted to those who are not cis but trans/genderqueer. I forget the term but it’s floating around someplace. It compleatly ok to have a trans* fetish or sexually attracted to them but it’s still no excuse to be rude.
I think those who identify that way can also be interested in cis ppl. Just trans I suppose is stronger/dominate?
Skoliosexual, I think, for genderqueer (as in other genders aside from the dyadic male/female, or even very feminine or masculine genders)? Rather than Femme/gyno sexual (For attraction towards feminine or female people) or masse/andro sexual (for attraction towards masculine or male people). Not sure about specifically Trans* people, or Gender-fluid (if fluid between the binary male-female) as they can come under andro/masse/femme/gyno-sexual as well.
I think being attracted to the ‘Trans’ness of a person, rather than specifically there gender, would be a fetish rather than a sexuality?
I despise people who are really rude and disrespectful, and then go all “I was just complimenting you, BITCH”, when you don’t appreciate it. Nobody asked for your shitty “compliments”, Dbag.
Amen!
It’s not a compliment if you expect something in return, you smarmy bastard!
Awww JD and poof sleeping over at anwars
I’ve entirely given up on trying to get anyone to recognize me as genderfluid or use male and neutral pronouns along with female ones
Lots of sympathy from me to you. That sucks.
To me the whole calling a girl a bitch when she rejects your advances is… flabbergasting. Perhaps its because I’m a woman who is attracted to other women, but my first thought when I’m rejected isn’t to insult her, that just seems like you’re digging your hole deeper O_O
*Just a note, I’m not referring to JD as a woman, I’m just reflecting on the common occurrence in which woman (myself included) are insulted after rejection.
Went to an all-girls school where it was commonly used among friends as a term of endearment. Constantly surprised by the use of it as an insult.
It’s a double insult in this case because it’s not only a derogatory term, but a gendered one : c